Components and Shops

[Zugg]

I am not sure if this is the right place. But for a few weeks now it has been hard to get some components. Many spell casters (wizard and priests alike of both aligns) are very low on certain components based on my IC and OOC conversations.

Also, playing an evil, it is hard enough to get components (which I do not mind), but when a store then when the store claims it is out of stock... it is just very difficult. For some evils getting something simple as flask of water or even manure is difficult. I have had to resort to buying a horse, leading it around in a town for an hour and collecting manure. I hope that isn't what some people call twinking... but I am not sure what else I can do.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or help on this topic...

Zugg, a Shaman of da One-Eye

[Harroghty]

A couple of things from someone who had one spellcaster (ever) in 1997 and never since.
-No, that is not what I would call twinking. I would call that being resourceful. I would define twinking as something that sacrifices role-play completely for personal advantage and, in this case, you are simply using an available solution to a perceived shortage.
-Component shops are often stocked by players. From time to time there are certain components that become scarce. I know that there was recently a copy-over and this should clean the slate in general, however; evils will still (Perhaps this is not all evils? Definitely orcs though.) have less available to them.
-I recommend that you use this begin a discussion that can recommend some practical solutions to what appears to be an issue and then either act on them or see if some other players will help you do so (build an orc shaman hut to be included in the game somewhere, for example).

All right, I am going to skitter back into the School of Combat, but this could be an opportunity to address this issue if others notice it also.

[Jaenoic]

This is not the first or even second time this particular issue of a lack of components has been raised. If this is a reoccurring difficulty, I can't help but wonder why we have spell components at all? It has stirred me to think up a few pros and cons to components.

Pros:
- They are useful in roleplay. (I enjoy smoting various actions with my components)
- They add a balancing cost to wizards. (Compare with fighters > expensive armor)
- They are link to D&D rules which also has components for spells. (Is a character assumed to have the necessary components, though, in P&P?)
- They help balance more powerful spells with expensive costs.

Cons:
- They can be a real money drain on wizards, who are not known for their money-making abilities. (Unlike a fighter/priest/rogue who can gain money through solo mob bashing, a wizard generally must group and split the loot)
- When a component depletes world-wide, no one is able to cast any spell requiring that component.
- Their nature encourages hoarding which only further exacerbates component shortages. (I recall yuan-ti eyes being a much demanded component recently. Whenever it would come back into stock, the first few to arrive at the component shop would buy in bulk, quickly depleting the supply again)

All things considered, I wonder if spell components are worth the trouble? Is it feasible to do away with them? Could we keep components only for the more powerful spells? Personally, I enjoy the concept of components. It gives magic a tangible feel that makes it more believable despite being fantastic. But if the problem of component shortages is just going to keep reoccurring every few months, is it worth the trouble?

[Horace]

Components are in the game for balance purposes. Right now there is a drought because the two main pc ran shops aren't being restocked. The only way to ensure components are plentiful is to app for running a store, and sell yourself doing so. Explain why you owning the store is better than anyone else owning the store.

App to try and buy out previous player run stores if you don't have a good idea of a new shop. Do anything you can to show you want to be involved in the process of keeping the shops up and running.

I've noticed that with this game changing the way things are done is damn near impossible at worse, and horribly time consuming at the very best. The paradigm we have right now is "player run stores are 100% necessary". Understand that and work within the system.

Right now our PC run shops aren't being kept up fast enough. You can't blame another player for it, when the option exists to do it yourself with an app.

[Jaenoic]

The only way to ensure components are plentiful is to app for running a store, and sell yourself doing so.

Is it the only way, though? There are other solutions, such as foraging in the wilderness or mechanisms like the wonder forge(is that what it's called?). I think it's dangerous to feel trapped into just one solution, and it's important to remember that this isn't an infinity engine game where you must run this course and this course only and work within the limits. Muds are great because they're so free-form.

I've noticed that with this game changing the way things are done is damn near impossible at worse, and horribly time consuming at the very best. The paradigm we have right now is "player run stores are 100% necessary". Understand that and work within the system.

This mentality I think is the cause of the idea of limitation. I wouldn't say it's near impossible to have things changed, because there have been massive changes in the past and there will continue to be changes made constantly. Obviously not every idea can be implemented, but many are. I will admit that it can take time for applications and such things to be processed, but that is a result of another problem(understaffing) which should also be met with solutions rather than the "Oh well that's the way it is" line of thinking.

Overall I find player-run shops to be only temporary solutions to components. You can stock them with 2000 yuan-ti eyes but eventually they will just run out unless someone continues to restock them. Mechanisms like the wonder forge are great because they are perpetual. Make an automatic, reoccurring source of metal, buy your molds and there is no longer any need to give the mechanism attention; it'll run itself. Need fire beetle stomachs? Add an area with fire beetles that drop their stomachs on death. Exotic animal part X? Have a wizard from afar with a program that'll trade component X for common component Y(component Y is in short supply where he's from, but component X is abundant). I feel that these sorts of solutions are much longer lasting than just restocking player stores.

[Dalvyn]

The plan is to have ways (some much more complex than others) to make it possible to get all the components from the game without having to buy them (e.g., forge, alchemy, ...).

[Lerytha]

Dalvyn, I love the ideas about alchemy and the like. However, I would point out the only flaw in this problem. Sometimes, a wizard desperately needs a component. And they can't go travelling (or alchemising?) for components all the time. Although wizards are (arguably) much more powerful than fighters, a fighter doesn't need to work up slowly to find a lump of manure to wield his sword.

Nor is there only one way for him to find a sword, armour, etc. I wouldn't mind it so much, if we made the components shops more expensive (so that wizards in an emergency can use it) but make all other ways of finding components free.

That way, there are two options (well, maybe three):

1. In a hurry? Buy it!
2. Plenty of time? Find it/make it/etc
3. Mixture of both? Buy it direct from a PC who has the time and sells it at less than the shops, but more than three.

That way, there is never a complete lack of components, but alternative ways of finding it?

[Zugg]

Yuan-ti eyes are hard to get and I would love to help re-supply some player run stores. Just let poor old Zugg into da DeepWatah city and all will be fine. Maybe while Zugg is in the DeepWatah city he could look at other shops??? *cough*.

I know some players go out and somehow gather some components and sell them to other players like some gems, gem powder and ankhs I find this great for getting some components. But I have yet to run across one of those players that will sell to poor Zugg. I think most would run away at his smell.

I'm all for anything that can help keep components in shops. What of all those shops in some cities that when you try to buy something they say... 'I have not told I can trade with you...?" Are they selling only to union employees?

Anyway, seriously. I want to help with getting components available, I just do not know what I can do to help.

Thanks for all your great ideas so far.

Oh, one more thing... I like having to use components, I think it adds more to the game to use them.

Cheers,

Zugg Zugg.

[Zugg]

I thought of one more thing... Some giants drop rhubarb leaves and sand can be found on those deserts and some stones are found by walking. Earthstones used to be found that way, but its been a LONG time since I've found any.

Could more NPCs be coded that they randomly drop a component upon death_prog like the hill giants do and stirges and even the Yuan-tis?

Thanks,

Zugg.

[Dalvyn]

Dalvyn, I love the ideas about alchemy and the like. However, I would point out the only flaw in this problem. Sometimes, a wizard desperately needs a component. And they can't go travelling (or alchemising?) for components all the time.

Then I believe that this can be a great option for entreprising Waukenaar, no? Set up a network of alchemists/collectors of all sorts and make sure that components are always available. Set up expeditions to Undermountain to collect yuan-ti eyes for examples! Give a good reason for people to go down there and put their skills to use (something more interesting than just go and bash giants).

(I still need to add a non-WD entrance to UM for orcs and other smelly creatures by the way)

(As for the earthstones, yes ... earthstones should be made from normal stones with alchemy. Did someone already contact an imm to give in all the crystals the dwarven mage from Daggerford wanted?)