Events and storyplots

[Yevel]

I have been thinking since there isn't much of a evil side to this mud, so there isn't much conflict or plots going on. Is it possible to have a monthly plot or event happen something that a band of adventurers can get in on. It seems like all there are, are good guys running around just leveling and such with no "real" advesary most of the times. At least that is how I have seen it since I started playing, it is just a suggestion.

[Glim]

No evil side? Really? What made you come to this conclusion? Lack of interaction with evils?

This post really motivates me. Prepare, Faerun!

As far as an event, do you have any ideas in mind? Players can do events too, you know.

Also, maybe you should make an evil character. They are really fun

[Zuldere]

There is always a evil plot brewing. Granted it takes a long time before it comes to light but there are some.

[Yevel]

I've tried my hands at a evil character, but I myself do not work it well. I found myself more upset than anything, so I made a neutral character to aid the evils when they need help leveling and such. And also someone that can roleplay with good and evil accordingly. I just mean as far as imms as it seems that the good people always talk about it being boring and it seems this mud promotes characters to keep their characters long-term then why not have events for certain level ranges or groups. I know a imm did a event for me and another indvidual, Which was awesome. Even if Im not involved I love hearing stories of such and being affected by certain events indirectly.

[Elke]

Honestly, some of the trouble is simply due to the fact that there's a certain hesitation, at least there is on my part, with goodies inflicting trouble on baddies. Sure, you can kill an evil, but they'll be back within the day. You can even loot them, of one piece of equipment - not that many people would feel comfortable doing that...But there aren't any real consequences and no one wants to be the person who keeps hunting down the same PC and killing them repeatedly, because that's no fun for anyone.

Which is why I'd love to see raids into evil territory or faith wars, or evil plans that need -thwarting- - where the chance of affecting the rp element of the game is a possible outcome. Perhaps someone might do structural damage to a temple? Or stop the kidnap, or retrieve the MacGuffin, or whatever. As it stands the game world can end up in a certain stasis that's hard to budge.

Or maybe it's just that the goodies are just too nice

- PS: I like your evils, Yevel

[Lathlain]

Honestly, some of the trouble is simply due to the fact that there's a certain hesitation, at least there is on my part, with goodies inflicting trouble on baddies. Sure, you can kill an evil, but they'll be back within the day. You can even loot them, of one piece of equipment - not that many people would feel comfortable doing that...But there aren't any real consequences and no one wants to be the person who keeps hunting down the same PC and killing them repeatedly, because that's no fun for anyone.

Precisely what Elke said, just replace 'good' with 'evil' and vice versa

In reality characters of all alignments will often remain defiant in the face of imminent disaster - always safe in the knowledge that they will be resurrected shortly after, smiled on by their god for their courageous stand in the face of insurmountable odds.

Is this a problem?

Well, yes and no. It's been a huge annoyance as far as promoting aggressive 'evil' plots is concerned, but I wouldn't wish to impose a permanent death on anyone. Even if the option were available, I wouldn't take it unless the victim in question had suggested it and actively chased it! There might be penalty-based alternatives to permanent death of course - maybe even something as simple as dramatically raising the cost of NPC priest resurrections would help, but that's a matter for another forum.

All that said, I don't think this is the entire cause of any problems with the interactivity between alignments. I have often found, distressingly, that any attempts from one side to interact with the other are commonly either ignored or promptly forgotten about. There may be IC reasons for this of course, but when someone who has had something terrible occur to them completely neglects to mention it to their friends, or simply continues to go on with their life, it's very difficult to follow up on

In precis, I think Yevel has the right of it here. Although I think monthly events might be a little ambitious, it would be nice to see more planned and structured roleplays with a little immortal-driven energy to keep us all on the right tack!

[Julthain]

I believe I saw something a while back about a "story council" being organized to handle PC driven plots... I am unsure as to whether or not it was a success, but from what I have seen the Staff post OOC ingame and on the forums, I can only assume that if you write it, they will come.

Hmm.. a bit right about the defiance in the face of adversity and certain death though. Perhaps it could be solved by putting in what I would call a "death timer":

Said PC dies, but instead of being able to be instantly resurrected and continue on like nothing ever happened, perhaps they should have sit on the Fugue for an hour or two realtime (a day or two ingame). That way, players won't be so quick to stare down death and laugh like its funny... unless that is what your particular PC would do. Instead they would realize OOC "Hey, if I die here, I won't be able to do anything but sit in an exitless room and twiddle my thumbs for two hours, better extract myself from the situation and move along."

Though, in my personal opinon, the timer should not start ticking until the person in question has had their remains located and recovered. You could think of the timer as the time it took the priest to locate your spirit in the Realms of Death and coax it back into your body.

[Zorinar]

Wow, interesting ideas.
Although sitting in Fugue for a few real life hours is not going to be possible for a lot of people. When they log off, their junk will fall on the ground if no-one is willing to help them, and it will get stolen or lost in a reset.

But... faith wars. That would be a great story driven plot, run by the IMM's. Allowed player killing during the events for some parts of the event, stolen artifacts, kidnappings... Lots of potential there because you dont have to try to get certain personalities involved that would have reason for said offense, the churches can issue order to their faithful based on backdoor politics invisible to the players, or visible.

[Lathlain]

It's a side topic I know, but that's a really tremendously good idea Julthain! Would you mind putting that in a different thread here please?

[Yevel]

Well its not really about dying by the hands of a evil, Its more about having events or plots for evil people to work against good. Or vice versa.
I think that if we allowed for some plots to grow and evil indviduals to really make a impact on the world we have by joining in. That is sorta what Im looking for, is what Elke said. Something that really affects the world around us, something that would change "buildings" or "towns" that way we can be like for a month or so "Dang we should have gotten here sooner to save this area from attack." or "I knew that person was a priest of Cyric, if I would have confronted him that young mystran priestess would still be around today." Allow for them to take down buildings, kidnap mobs that many people like to visit. Faithwars, give those indviduals that play out there faith and strike hard glory. I think many players can start their own plots, but it'd be nice to have someone unbias overseeing the plot to make sure both sides have ample time to respond and allow for the "luckiest" side to win.

P.S. Thanks Elke, I just like to play out characters and see where it goes. I think I've finally found one that works with me.

[Raona]

Something that really affects the world around us, something that would change "buildings" or "towns" that way we can be like for a month or so "Dang we should have gotten here sooner to save this area from attack." or "I knew that person was a priest of Cyric, if I would have confronted him that young mystran priestess would still be around today." Allow for them to take down buildings, kidnap mobs that many people like to visit.

This has precedent, and will likely happen again in the future. cf Ardeep and Markana's camp, mentioned in this storyline:
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=5164

However, these changes can also make life much more difficult for new players, and are generally pretty complex to pull off. They are not done wantonly, with the intent to take out this area or that, but rather when it is a reasonable consequence of the IC events that unfold in the game.

Focus on these sorts of things waxes and wanes with other matters that occupy those behind the curtain - currently, a major improvement in the feat system, and many new areas being built and brought into the game. Things will roll around to them again before long, worry not!

[Kirkus]

Yvel I really like what you are saying. In my mind the problem is twofold. I think part of the problem is that there are never enough evil characters. It could be my bias toward playing an evil character but, we are always greatly outnumbered. Thus the focus is often slanted toward the side of good. And therein lies where I see the second part of the problem. We have a tendency for good to win. Now I am sure we evils have had a victory or two, but I couldn't name them, but then again I am not active enough... Yes good should win, most of the time. But the players of the goodies need to understand that we are players too and we should get to win sometime too. And here is the reason why, and an integral part of my argument, if we as evils never get to chalk up a win, it gets boring for us. Who actually wants to be the good guys punching bag all the time. I know I don't. If evils don't see a win every once in a while, they get discouraged and stop playing evil.

Now part of this is our, as players, faults. We aren't initiating the rp. We don't have to wait for the imms to come up with something. We evils need to get creative, and send in applications for specials long term rp. If I was going to send in some evil rp app I would put in some way for the goodies to be the hero, at least for some part of it. I believe that it should be a give and take. That way everyone is happy. We do something evil, they get to respond, then we get to succeed in something evil again, and then they get to be good again etc...

[Layna]

The problem I have is that, for whatever reason, people don't seem to want to meet with Layna. I mean, it's not like she follows a god of murde-- oh wait.

In all seriousness though, I get the impression that people seem to think that a meeting with an evil will necessarily and without deviation end up in a player kill. In the three years I've played Layna, I can still count the number of PKs I've been involved with on the fingers of one hand. I know that I don't go out looking, or expecting, for a meeting to end in a PK - particularly if there's been nothing particular to warrent that in the roleplay running up to that meeting. It's frustrating and frankly upsetting when people say there isn't enough interaction between good and evil and then seem unwilling to pursue any interaction when it's offered to them.

[Elke]

I'm very sorry about that! First of all Elke was panicking, secondly I had to log and knew I didn't have the time to do a long rp justice and thirdly she fully expected to get killed. It made sense ICly. Sorry, no frustration at all was intended!

[Elke]

And when I have time later I will let Elke be at your disposal for evilling at

[Layna]

I appreciate that Elke But for the record, it's not just you - I think that there is this common 'we're going to get killed if we go out there' attitude. While obviously sometimes this will be the case, it's not always absolutely and without question going to end up in death. Honest guv!

[Dovan]

Eh... I've no trouble interacting with evil from a good standpoint. Not to detail too much, but I recently was and doing so half decently I suppose, when another just entered the room, looked around, then moved right along. Hey... that's their thing I suppose not wanting to get involved, but to me... you're missing out on half the fun.

Perhaps if there was an ability to block an exit or something to a cave so people couldn't leave (beyond spells) that might make it a bit more interesting, yet then again... you're forcing someone's rp which isn't high in my book.

I don't know the solution... I guess just perhaps getting people to get over the stigma "I'm going to die if I stop near this evil person" would help. Who knows...

[Isaldur]

I appreciate that Elke But for the record, it's not just you - I think that there is this common 'we're going to get killed if we go out there' attitude. While obviously sometimes this will be the case, it's not always absolutely and without question going to end up in death. Honest guv!

Can I ask why people are being judged poorly for their character being more cautious than some brazenly suicidal numbskull that hardly cares if there is a chance he or she may die? If you want to play a character that is a social pariah to the majority of the world, or worships an evil god that is outright profane and not even accepted within most societies that's your choice.. but don't get upset at other players when they actively try to AVOID your character because of it.

Pretty much the whole "Good vs Evil" fight on FK is just Spy vs Spy.

Simply put it's very difficult to apply roleplay and logic to PvP and PK as is. Especially when there are almost no consequences to actions, and no matter how frequently someone dies they will continue to come back. Death, even in magic heavy D&D settings like Forgotten Realms, is supposed to be an end all for almost everyone but the player character. When it's player character vs player character that just creates a vicious and boring cycle, especially for characters who would kill one another on sight based on prior experiences and or roleplaying choices.

In the end a good DM makes a world, adventure, and story in which the PLAYER enjoys.. and I really doubt any player, protagonist or antagonist, enjoys losing. Especially to one another.

Now what I would like to see is an event or incident that forces both sides to work together. A good example is the Tuigan Horde that caused places like the Dalelands, Cormyr, and Zhentil Keep to work together in mutual defense all the while working towards coming out on top at the end as well.

- Edited because I apparently cannot spell frequently.

[Kirkus]

The problem is that people are assuming that any good vs. evil pc interaction is Required to come to blows and is Required to end in pc death. It doesn't, and if it does, it doesn't have to end at death. If the looser stays alive, and the winner takes their piece of loot, and the winner gives the looser a time to come back to rp for their stuff... Hey all of a sudden we have rp that has stemmed from a good vs. evil situation. And no one died. Ultimately I think this is a more exciting rp. No one needed to be afraid that their character that they had poured their time and effort into was going to be killed. We have killmode stun for a reason.

[Isaldur]

That's a great outlook for a character that does not care about their life Kirkus. Just the CHANCE that it could end in violence or death is enough to deter some people unless they are sufficiently prepared for the encounter. Why is it suddenly a bad thing that characters care about their lives and treat a chance of being beat up, dismembered, robbed, maimed, sold into slavery, or killed as a serious matter and try to avoid it when possible?

Edit: I finally found words to describe why that attitude irks me. You're asking people to change how their characters would react to something based off of OOC knowledge that "It may not turn into death and violence". I'm not down with that.

D&D is a game meant for parties of players for a reason. Skills and abilities that supplement and cover one an others shortcomings like strength and safety in numbers, being able to tackle a far more "Big & Bad" monster, and all around making your chances at survival better.

I don't believe PvP adds anything but headaches and frustration to this. It's a static world where typically the only change is driven and made by the IMM's (DM's) and as such the antagonists should be played by them. If anything the players who want to make a difference in getting plots and events should apply to join the Story Council and help out there, that way they are effectively playing said antagonists for the DM's.

Please keep in mind I'm not talking good and evil, I'm talking protagonist and antagonist.