Favor for Good-Aligned Deities

[Mask]

Bury was changed to use the 'dig' skill. As part of this change, it was noticed that bury was exceptionally quick - unintentionally so. Investigation revealed that the reason for this was from when 'weights' were changed to allow fractions, ie, things that weighed less than 1 lb - corpses were not correctly updated and weighed a tenth as much as what they should have done. Since the time taken to bury a corpse is dependant on it's size and weight, this meant that burials were completing in a tenth of the time it was supposed to take.

I think it's something of a stretch to say: the burial lag is longer than it used to be - therefore the game is no longer fun.

[Bellayana]

Don't we have a donate command, where perhaps it will send coins or items to a flagged storage room in a temple for others to get? Or for the deity to have access to?

[Saranya]

...corpses were not correctly updated and weighed a tenth as much as what they should have done....

I was going to mention that the increase in corpse weight also has some heavy consequences (pun intended!) It's a lot harder to move and carry corpses, which makes rescues harder, caused problems with Conservatory transfer, etc. (You can buff up the Conservatory Priest mob, but what about the rest of us? )

I think it's something of a stretch to say: the burial lag is longer than it used to be - therefore the game is no longer fun.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that was what people said. I believe what was said was that the cumulative effect of many recent changes designed to make the game harder/slower/"more realistic"/whatever makes the game for me (and maybe others) more tedious and ergo less fun.

[Zorinar]

I think it's something of a stretch to say: the burial lag is longer than it used to be - therefore the game is no longer fun.[/quote]I

I cannot speak for anyone else but I certainly wasn't intending such a bold implication with my statements. The game is entirely fun, which is the only reason why I bother to post, because I like it enough to care. I have always thought that this is one of the most polished muds I have found. Sure there are some annoying things as well, but the freedom to be able to mention them and get discussion around those issues is one of the strong points to this place.

[Nearraba]

Don't we have a donate command, where perhaps it will send coins or items to a flagged storage room in a temple for others to get? Or for the deity to have access to?

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that with the donate command you must be of certain faith level to use it. (I.E. Inner Circle or Faith Manager.)

But it would be a neat idea to bring up in another topic, so anyone could donate to any faith if they so wanted. =)

[Alaudrien]

Hmm Perhaps since burying for me anyway seems to take like 20 seconds or more at times make it so you can at least talk or rp as you bury? MmmI do think we need more outlets for gaining favour for certain classes of good and neutral dieties though. I mean quite a few evil faiths get it for killing certain types. Some good aligned ones to but not the majority.

[Gwain]

I would agree with Alaudrien, if its possible can bury be changed slightly to allow smotes as the process occurs? If you do anything when attempting to bury it stops the process. Only if the code can allow it though.

EDIT: I am mistaken, you can bury and smote without it stopping the bury process. Apologies.

[Kinal]

It's incredibly lopsided. Everyone agrees on that. The issue is: "does this lopsidedness cause any real issues"? I don't understand trying to qualify the issue by arguing for it to be slightly less than what others are suggesting is the case.

I personally don't think it's an issue - for my reasons above.

In response to Kallias, I undertand what you're saying, and I believe it does. Not a huge problem that is a major effect to any roleplay, but definately a side-plus to following any coded diety. While I know, I completely understand that you shouldn't choose which diety to follow based on supplication items or domain prayers, but the equipment and resurrection/recall abilities with high favor was nice. I'm not saying the game is less fun without it, it's just a thought.

[Llaytan]

I think that the problem is that we shouldn't consider supplicated items for granted, I want to think that if you join a church you want to RP the faith, everything else that comes with it is welcome too. What I mean is that unless you worship a rest-and-peace-in-death focused god, ICly don't make much sense that after burying a pile of corpses, you get Mystra's hammer of ultimate of doom or whatever relic of whatever god that hasn't a strict interest in making the dead rest. Also I think that characters should be rewarded with favor when they push somehow the objectives of their churches, be it officiating ceremonies or doing something that benefits them (that most often than not will provide good RP), with that said what only I would ask the imm staff be attentive to those that really care about their churches and bless them with favor accordingly. And if there aren't any imms when that RP takes place but they know that it has taken place whenever one is ready send the character an echo of their patron's sign of favor and reward him.

Thanks for your time and understanding.

[Isaldur]

I think that the problem is that we shouldn't consider supplicated items for granted, I want to think that if you join a church you want to RP the faith, everything else that comes with it is welcome too. What I mean is that unless you worship a rest-and-peace-in-death focused god, ICly don't make much sense that after burying a pile of corpses, you get Mystra's hammer of ultimate of doom or whatever relic of whatever god that hasn't a strict interest in making the dead rest. Also I think that characters should be rewarded with favor when they push somehow the objectives of their churches, be it officiating ceremonies or doing something that benefits them (that most often than not will provide good RP), with that said what only I would ask the imm staff be attentive to those that really care about their churches and bless them with favor accordingly. And if there aren't any imms when that RP takes place but they know that it has taken place whenever one is ready send the character an echo of their patron's sign of favor and reward him.

Thanks for your time and understanding.

Fairly certain Faith Managers can bless favor on followers for that sort of stuff. Even if it's contact your FM and send proof OOC and they bless you for the deed as if the god had done so already.

[Kinal]

Then that brings us to another subject, if we can come to expect favor from church roleplays, what about churches high priest/priestesses who are not around? I mean, I understand that they have lives outside of FK, but some faiths are harder to roleplay in, and get favor from.

[Isaldur]

Then that brings us to another subject, if we can come to expect favor from church roleplays, what about churches high priest/priestesses who are not around? I mean, I understand that they have lives outside of FK, but some faiths are harder to roleplay in, and get favor from.

There are three available Faith Management spots on every faith list for a reason. I don't know how many faiths other than the ones I am involved with actually bother using all three, but I do think it is a good idea. Mostly so long as structure is laid out IC about who is still ranking above whom, even if they are at the top of the chain. The other option is to hope an IMM is attending whatever roleplay.

Honestly there is no great answer for this, but I'm of the mind that we should be roleplaying for enjoyment and character development and not for reward. Certainly not claiming anyone roleplays only in situations where they know they will be rewarded for such, but to create a sense of entitlement for favor rewards is not a good idea. Most favor rewards that are not outright coded are judgment calls and everyone, FM and IMM alike, make them differently which is why it would be difficult to institute any sort of system where you send in logs of roleplays for favor rewards. In a worst case scenario there would be issues where people only attend functions or roleplay just to be rewarded and flood the system. Subsequently rules would be put into place after that to limit on an X per Y ratio where X = Number of submissions and Y = A timeframe (Week, day, etc) and that would discourage people from bothering with roleplaying beyond the maximum of what they would be "rewarded" for.

So to sum it up, use the coded favor rewarding as a baseline. Be happy when you get anything extra thrown your way for now. If you see anything wrong with how your god is coded to reward favor or even remove favor then I'd honestly suggest making a polite and professional suggestion about it. Always remember to take it one more step and provide a reason and rhyme for why, and if possible a solution, to any problem you are reporting.

[Raona]

I would agree with Alaudrien, if its possible can bury be changed slightly to allow smotes as the process occurs? If you do anything when attempting to bury it stops the process. Only if the code can allow it though.

EDIT: I am mistaken, you can bury and smote without it stopping the bury process. Apologies.

Gwain: You were not crazy, this was the case; and it was re-coded! Smotes and OOC commands like SCORE no longer stop the bury process, while other commands (like LOOK) do. (Not because of anything I did, but, I expect, because Mask read your post and/or Alaudrien's and others and said "fair enough, I can do that!")

This underscores Isaldur's insightful comment above. The Imms do take the time to read (some of) the forum posts, as much as they can, and if you make a constructive suggestion, and it is doable...they'll often do it! Please keep that in mind, though, that whole of your comments impact their morale. As I am currently helping testing some new game engine bits, lately I've had the chance to work with Mask closely, almost day to day...and I just want to underscore that he wants us all to have fun, and what we say does impact his energy level. If he feels like people are whingeing about nothing (or something he just worked very hard to fix), it's hard for him to not throw up his hands in defeat, at least for the day. Thankfully for us, he comes back raring to go the next day.

[Gwain]

Thank you very much for all the effort and time you put into these changes

[Kinal]

There are three available Faith Management spots on every faith list for a reason. I don't know how many faiths other than the ones I am involved with actually bother using all three, but I do think it is a good idea.

Yes, but how? It's hard to get such a position. Some FMs aren't willing to share the position. And I don't think it's smiled upon to volunteer for a position in such.

[Isaldur]

There are three available Faith Management spots on every faith list for a reason. I don't know how many faiths other than the ones I am involved with actually bother using all three, but I do think it is a good idea.

Yes, but how? It's hard to get such a position. Some FMs aren't willing to share the position. And I don't think it's smiled upon to volunteer for a position in such.

Like I said Kinal, no easy or good answer to this. Personally I would favor the approach of the characters who feel they are being ignored or sidelined banding together and starting a faith roleplay, plot, etc in order to address the situation. That could get IMM attention so the matter is looked into and perhaps it would be determined that there needs to be another FM raised up to help fill in, or one of the FM's would see the need and petition the IMM's to do so.

A less intrusive approach would be to pray. Enough followers of a faith pray the same prayer and the deity they are following may just take time to look into it. Just don't spam the gents and ladies upstairs.

Would it be a painless process IC? No, It may cause a schism in the faith. Would you get what you want in the end? No clue, it's dependent on so many different factors. Could you potentially be sandbagging someone who has a good OOC reason to never be around when you are like timezone issues or having lost their job, house, etc? Yes you very well could, some of those FM's put in more work than you will ever know and just ran into some tough times recently.

No easy or good answer, and none of them I am especially fond of.

[Gwain]

Yes, but how? It's hard to get such a position. Some FMs aren't willing to share the position. And I don't think it's smiled upon to volunteer for a position in such.

As much as they are in charge of a faith, FM's do not hold the final word on who can and can't become a FM next to them. If any faith becomes too large to manage or suffers from and inactive or ineffective FM there is a good chance that in the scheme of time another character will be placed as an FM. Generally, you should not Volunteer or apply for a position like this, as it is wholly up to the imms and administers in charge of the faith to seek out those that can do a good job as FM and have earned the privileged through good works in the game. Even then it is a delicate process that takes time and evaluation.

[Kinal]

Then, do you feel is is bad to bring this to the attention of the IMMs, via complains or applications forum? Not necessarily applying for such, but just as a complaint?

[Gwain]

I don't think that a complaint or application is bad in the least if it provides important information. I just don't think its a good idea to apply to be a faith leader for one of your characters. Apps and complaints are there to assist you in certain situations, however, there are ic ways such as prayers to use for ic situations. I'm more inclined to associate complaints with ooc issues.

[Lathlain]

I would caution you only to use the complaints address in the event of an actual complaint. Complaining that your faith doesn't have a faith manager isn't especially helpful, but applying either to be the faith manager or nominating someone else for the role is perfectly acceptable!

Of course, applying to be a faith manager in a faith that doesn't need one or that you're not suitable for isn't advised - and being nominated will always make you look better than if you've applied for yourself