Craft Q&A

[Selveem]

No, stats can only add to your check, that's why I say your guesses are probably wrong on the skill level part

Either way, I'm taking into account the minimal possible bonus that I could see me having. If stats can only add to my skills, then my example should still be plenty valid.

[Brar]

No, you're guessing on the bonus your skill levels gives you, the only one knowing is the ghost in vacation out of the machine

And as if we follow your urle it's utterly broken, then I guess your wrong... but it's only a guess based on your guess so it's far from a valid fact :p

[Nysan]

Point of fact, Gilain has only 3 failure delays during his past 5 full plate projects, which was quite a few weeks worth of progress. *shrug*

[Selveem]

Point of fact, Gilain has only 3 failure delays during his past 5 full plate projects, which was quite a few weeks worth of progress. *shrug*

However, Gilain is GM at his craft and a Dwarf. Point of fact is that he should almost never fail and even if he did, he should only be delayed, not lose materials.

No, you're guessing on the bonus your skill levels gives you, the only one knowing is the ghost in vacation out of the machine

And as if we follow your urle it's utterly broken, then I guess your wrong... but it's only a guess based on your guess so it's far from a valid fact :p

Except for the fact that I'm not 'guessing.' I'm basing my information on how it _should_ work, not how it was coded. I have actually crafted armors and weapons in live D&D games.

[Nysan]

I know. I'm so good, I cannot fail enough to test your problem.

[Selveem]

Failing three times out of five attempts actually only proves my point, Gilain.

[Nysan]

Failing three times out of five attempts actually only proves my point, Gilain.

More like 3 times in 40-ish weeks worth of crafting, but I get your point.

[Brar]

Except for the fact that I'm not 'guessing.' I'm basing my information on how it _should_ work, not how it was coded. I have actually crafted armors and weapons in live D&D games.

You are guessing, for the DnD system is tied to level (for the max skill points) and skill points invested, which are not the same as in FK where it is tied to skill levels that are on a different scale which probably gives differents checks or at least differents modifiers.

"3 points for every advance, starting at Apprentice"

That is the guessing part of your explanation.
And it is more than probable that the checks are daily, perhaps even hourly.

And stats plays an important role in FK, I can see a whole difference when crafting with a char with a good int ansd a bad int.

[Athon]

We have an analogous system, I think. In D&D, skill "levels" are tied to level whereas in FK skill "levels" are tied in to, well, skill levels (training your skill).

Our skill system goes from 1-25. In D&D, many skills have an added bonus once you reach 5 or more thanks in a skill. So it's pretty easy to make a valid guess between FK's skill system and D&D's skill system.

And it is more than probable that the checks are daily, perhaps even hourly.

Last I saw, checks are only made when you log in. I've had it several times when I construct a weapon that takes 0 days to make (less than 2 hours in real life) yet when I log in 2 days later, it still has not been created. If it was checking hourly or daily, it would have had a very high probability of passing the check by the time I logged in.

[Nysan]

Correct, failures checks are done at log ins because that is the only time the system checks for progress. There are no invisible checks while you are offline or online.

[Selveem]

It seems like crafted banded armor doesn't appear to be giving the right AC.

An Expert armorsmith made a full set of banded mail for my Dwarf. My Dwarf has a +2 Dex Bonus, is standing, has a light load, and is medium-sized with no feats to improve his armor.

The AC for Banded Mail is 6 and a +1 Dex Bonus mod. Thus, I should have 17 AC across the board.

Instead, I have 4 slots set to 15 and 3 slots set to 16. I think AC on crafted armor isn't being set properly.

[Lathander]

Man, that's a lot of detail to read through in one setting. I'm coming late to this party and even upstairs I'm not involved in this particular venture, so my questions and comments are from the mortal side rather than the imm one.

I have had the opportunity now to work with constructing armour by tanning skinned hides and working them into leather armour. My observations are these:

1. The slice command provides a wide variety of qualities in hide. I did not test it at the GM level. I like this a lot as it allows for variety. The lower end hides I produced did not go to waste and I was able to construct leather armour items with worthless quality hides. Not great if you're going to go face tough beasties, but fun none-the-less and the system works.

2. Tanning higher level skins into tanned hides did not produce higher level tanned hides as often as I would expect. However, I write this off as a reflection of the tanning skill level rather than the quality of skin used. Still, without seeing the actual numbers, I just got the "feeling" that the skin quality modifier could be more heavily weighted in determining the quality of tanned hide produced.

3. What I miss the most and advocate strongly be re-examined is the exclusion of the source name from the final product. If I am lucky enough to get enough red dragon skins to make enough red dragon tanned hides into a sweet piece of red dragon leather armour, I REALLY want it to indicate to anyone who looks at me that it is "leather armour of a red dragon." My skins say "The superior skin of an X" and my tanned hides say "the average tanned hide of an X"; so too should my armour say that. I recognize the difficulty in getting names that are too long. It might mean having to shorten parts of the name, even if it just includes a colorized version of the race file (e.g. dragon-leather gauntlets, cow-leather gauntlets, Schlem-leather gauntlets!)

4.

I like to RP in the forge and now that just counts as longer time until my project is crafted. I would like to see all time spent in the room that you set your craft in, whether logged in or not, counted towards your craft process.

Hear, hear! I understand that you shouldn't be able to go fight the nasties and work on your project at the same time. But, you SHOULD be able to sit in one location, use say/tell/smote and rp while working. Maybe a new command similar to Meditate that gives an autopose and limits your actions, but keeps the time going. Even if the timer goes at a modified reduced speed while online. Maybe have no reduced speed for those with trade focus.

[Nysan]

Here's what I can answer...

1. Slice: Yep, lots of qualities, just like mining. Some like it, some hate it, but overall it seems to be working alright.

2. Tanning: Yes, qualities is a concern at this stage. Some of us have suggested a re-tan feature, much like we currently have with re-smelting ingots. Far as I know, it is still in discussion at the top and no real agreement has been reached.

3. Names were cut for concerns over lengths. With the updates on locations names from generic helms/belts/gauntlets to their current descriptive names, the lengths of names has increased considerably. Add to this the potential of trademarks and armor type, it was getting fairly long... far longer than we thought was acceptable, especially considering some of the screen sizes used by some of our player base. We opted to cut metal type and source animal from the names to make them a bit less screen-filling. I personally see no reason to return the old information. However, I am not opposed to alternatives, such as coloring skins/hides based on their source animal (red for dragon, yellow for humanoids, ect)... we use a similar system for metal and it seems to work well.

4. Online crafting time... *shrug* Up to the boss man. I know I spend hours at the forge, smelting now and then so I see the benefits of it.

[Nysan]

It seems like crafted banded armor doesn't appear to be giving the right AC.

An Expert armorsmith made a full set of banded mail for my Dwarf. My Dwarf has a +2 Dex Bonus, is standing, has a light load, and is medium-sized with no feats to improve his armor.

The AC for Banded Mail is 6 and a +1 Dex Bonus mod. Thus, I should have 17 AC across the board.

Instead, I have 4 slots set to 15 and 3 slots set to 16. I think AC on crafted armor isn't being set properly.

Will get on test port later to test. Please hold...

[Athon]

3. Names were cut for concerns over lengths. With the updates on locations names from generic helms/belts/gauntlets to their current descriptive names, the lengths of names has increased considerably. Add to this the potential of trademarks and armor type, it was getting fairly long... far longer than we thought was acceptable, especially considering some of the screen sizes used by some of our player base. We opted to cut metal type and source animal from the names to make them a bit less screen-filling. I personally see no reason to return the old information. However, I am not opposed to alternatives, such as coloring skins/hides based on their source animal (red for dragon, yellow for humanoids, ect)... we use a similar system for metal and it seems to work well.

Personally, I'd much rather see "a mithril full plate <location> <trademark>" over "a masterwork full plate <location> <trademark>." At first glance, it should be easier to determine the metal than the quality of the armor. Leave the masterwork tag for when you EXAMINE an object and we will have no fusses with the object length.

[Nysan]

Trademarks replace "masterwork" in the name. One of Gilain's pieces would read: "a coin-branded full plate <location>", for example. So, it is shorter and easier to read... and the reason why we asked future trademark apps to be 12 characters or less.

[Raona]

It seems like crafted banded armor doesn't appear to be giving the right AC.

An Expert armorsmith made a full set of banded mail for my Dwarf. My Dwarf has a +2 Dex Bonus, is standing, has a light load, and is medium-sized with no feats to improve his armor.

The AC for Banded Mail is 6 and a +1 Dex Bonus mod. Thus, I should have 17 AC across the board.

Instead, I have 4 slots set to 15 and 3 slots set to 16. I think AC on crafted armor isn't being set properly.

Are all pieces of the same quality?

[Brar]

AC on crafted armor gets a penalty for lower quality item I think, same for weapon damage and hit.

Not sure about the exact penalty but that may be the probleme here.

And pc made item quality depends on the skill in the trade, the material, and a bit of luck

Now, what I would suggest is that we add to the appraise command things you can craft, instead of class restriction on what can be appraised.

[Lathander]

3. Names were cut for concerns over lengths. With the updates on locations names from generic helms/belts/gauntlets to their current descriptive names, the lengths of names has increased considerably. Add to this the potential of trademarks and armor type, it was getting fairly long... far longer than we thought was acceptable, especially considering some of the screen sizes used by some of our player base. We opted to cut metal type and source animal from the names to make them a bit less screen-filling. I personally see no reason to return the old information. However, I am not opposed to alternatives, such as coloring skins/hides based on their source animal (red for dragon, yellow for humanoids, ect)... we use a similar system for metal and it seems to work well.

I'm not the code guy, but there HAS to be a way to include the source material in the name. Something else could be taken out of the string. Personally, I'd rather see a generic helm/belt/gauntlet location name that included the source material rather than a more descriptive location name without the source material. To me, seeing that a piece of leather armour as "a dragon-leather belt" or "purple worm-leather leggings" is more hip than "a leather insertfancyhelmnamehere" I still think that if you take the time to mine, smelt and fashion mithril/gold/elven/steel your final product should reflect that. Just as if you take the time to slice, tan and fashion leathers from dragon/bear/rat/Isaldur, your final product should reflect that. What is the incentive to use phaerimm hides to make leather armour when using rabbit hides will produce an identical looking final product?

It's entirely possible that I'm missing some part of the picture here, and if I am, please clear up my confusion. I do think that major kudos should go out to everyone who has/is working on and testing this system. I'm just offering my 25 cents.

[Eltsac]

Wasn't there a discussion about the fact the material was not always trivial at first sight on a piece of armor, but it is an information that can be found with a closer examination or something like that?

Not sure though.

El.