claim

[Eltsac]

Would it be possible to improve the claim commande to make 'claim animal name' so you can name your companion like when you buy one?

El

[Raona]

Right now you can name an animal when you BUY one, but not when you CLAIM one that is running about loose. I think the code end of this would be straightforward. How do others feel about it?

[Harroghty]

Seems fine to me. Either way, in-character, it's just you naming your pet regardless of how you came by it.

[Lathander]

My addition would be that the name be removed when the animal is released. I can foresee someone claiming, naming and releasing an entire herd of animals. Do we really want to see an entire family of bears named "Mamma" "Pappa" and "Baby" roaming Ardeep?

[Brar]

You forgot Teddy!!!

[Raona]

Good point, Lathander! I think that's the makings of a fine suggestion:

1) Strip names from beasties when they are dismissed
2) Allow names to be applied to beasties when they are claimed

[Lathander]

I have another suggestion which I have made in another thread a long time ago. I'm not sure how, or even if, it could work. Necromancers are able to make many, many undead minions yet everyone is limited in the number of pets/mounts they can have (2). If a druid or ranger has 2 pets/mounts already, claim is useless unless they want to dismiss and part with one of their companions. So why not allow claim to use the charisma stat (underutilized anyway) to determine the number of extra pet slots a druid/ranger can have?

[Harroghty]

Lathander: How do you propose that we mitigate the risk of Joe Ranger claiming a pack of wolves, bears, or some other carnivore and creating a little ranger army? My suggestion would be to only allow small numbers (i.e. an 18 CHA would only result in being able to claim maybe three or four?).

[Brar]

CHA bonus = number of bonus pet?
Meaning at 18 CHA you get +4 pet for a total of 6

Could be also applicable to animate dead as well

[Eltsac]

I like that idea

[Raona]

I know a hard-code expansion would be required to accomplish this. Not sure about the feasibility of many extra slots.

I'd argue for a pet limit of two, modified by CHA modifier divided by two, rounded toward zero, and have it apply to all PCs. Thus, the end result would be:
CHA Score Range Minion Limit
=========== ========
1-3-----------------0
4-7-----------------1
7-13----------------2
14-17---------------3
18-21---------------4

[Selveem]

I don't know that I agree with that suggestion. I'm pretty sure claimed creatures keep their stats in FK, whereas animated dead do not seem to (animated Dragons, for example, seem to be a joke aside from looking menacing ICly). Bears and many other wild creatures in FK are very hard-hitting and I am loathe to see a ranger controlling four and two minions which needn't be simple mounts. In D&D, Rangers can Druids can claim only one animal companion.

"Claim" in FK is already far more powerful than Wild Empathy (it's D&D counterpart). You shouldn't be able to just tell these animals to go do something; there are spells for that.

[Eltsac]

Druids animal companion

'animal empathy' and claim in fk does not correspond to 'wild empathy' in DnD, it corresponds to the 'animal companion'
In Dnd, a druid can order his companion around with the _link_ he has with the companion, plus the animal gains a lot of bonus (HD, natural armor, strength, dexterity, bonus ticks and other specials).
So here, druids would have several 'standard' animals companions rather than one overpowered companion. Doesn't seem so unbalanced to me.



And I don't see problems in an animated creature not as strong as the original creature... I mean... you only get skeletons or zombies, whatever the original creature is. A different body and size will give different kinds of attacks, but becoming an undead, the creature looses all its intelligence (a zombie or a skeleton has 0 int and 0 con), all his skills, feat and special attacks, making it much weaker...
it's not more than an undead, just with size and limbs depending on its original form.
They should keep their strength and dexterity though




On another side, a druid can't bring his companions everywhere (even if animals are not really intelligent, they can't follow you icly and blindly everywhere). A druid would not Icly send his faithful companions into deadly situations or force them to do thinks unatural for the animal.
Undeads are just slave minions following blindly their master orders. The master can do whatever he want with them, sending them as first line butchery if he wants.


El

[Lathander]

I think that even if it is only one or two animals it would be a good addition. The skill is useless to any ranger/druid who already purchased two creatures. Maybe the charisma could relate to HD or levels of the creature rather than the number of creatures: five level ones, or one level five - that kind of thing?

[Selveem]

Re: Brar:
There is a huge contrast between the base creature and the animated creature. The animated creature is honestly a joke in FK. Otherwise, I wouldn't mention it as a counterpoint for claiming a load of animals. A single claimed bear is _really_ powerful in FK. Control four of those and I imagine even a level 50 Fighter would be down in HP in no time.

Re: Eltsac:
That's why I stated they get one. However, they don't get more than one. Additionally, a Brown Bear is not something that they can claim at any time. And, even if they do they don't get it at full power plus Druid/Ranger bonus abilities. My concern is that it's extremely powerful; especially when you consider that they can have two griffons (or mounts that are race-filed-as griffon) _and_ these type of creatures.

Re: Lathander:
Hit dice of their companions are affected by how far the Ranger and Druid have progressed in their class. I'd be rather annoyed if I had a Druid at level 50 whose wolf was owned by another level 10 Druid's badger because he has 20 Charisma (and an otherwise lacking character) and I have 12. As a side note, I really don't care for the whole "Charisma agenda" and the guilting associated with throwing points into it; people don't have low Charisma: They start out with average Charisma and work up from there. If people want to make Charisma more useful (and, thus, powerful), I have plenty of examples from D&D and alternate ideas that can help with that but they wouldn't belong here.

I'd rather see Druids get their empowerment as they should: getting the equivalent of a full night's rest healed when Shapechanging (Polymorph also does this!). Poison immunity at level 23. A Thousand Faces ability (disguise) at level 33. Getting more of their spells (which are pretty lacking in FK when you consider staple Druid spells like Summon Nature's Ally series aren't in yet). Spontaneous Casting of Summon Nature's Ally series when they're in.

Rangers, to a lesser degree, are also lacking some of their benefits like being able to choose twin-sword style or ranged style. I know that'd be harder to code so no need to get into those here.

As related question: If they do get to purchase griffons and 'claim' multiple companions, will Summon Nature's Ally stack even on top of that?

[Lathander]

I'd rather see Druids get their empowerment as they should: getting the equivalent of a full night's rest healed when Shapechanging (Polymorph also does this!). Poison immunity at level 23. A Thousand Faces ability (disguise) at level 33. Getting more of their spells (which are pretty lacking in FK when you consider staple Druid spells like Summon Nature's Ally series aren't in yet). Spontaneous Casting of Summon Nature's Ally series when they're in.

Rangers, to a lesser degree, are also lacking some of their benefits like being able to choose twin-sword style or ranged style. I know that'd be harder to code so no need to get into those here.

Please stay on the topic of discussing "Claim."

[Selveem]

Please stay on the topic of discussing "Claim."

It was on topic; did you read it all?

[Lathander]

Selveem, please stay on topic. I did read it all and quoted the part that did not apply to this forum. If you have other suggestions for things like polymorph, shapechanging, poison imunity, a thousand faces ability, summon nature's ally, twin sword style or ranged style, please post them in a more appropriate place.

This topic is about "claim."

[Harroghty]

I understand the concern with rangers suddenly having a ready-made army of minion mobiles. It is against the PK rules for their minions (owned, claimed, or otherwise) to be the sole combatants for a PC; the PC must also fight. So, then you ask, "Isn't it still unfair if the PC has an army of brown bears to help them?" I think that Raona's scale mitigates that.

CHA Score Range Minion Limit
=========== ========
1-3-----------------0
4-7-----------------1
7-13----------------2
14-17---------------3
18-21---------------4

Like Selveem said: most PCs have average charisma scores. I would go a step further and say that most people probably fall between 7-13 (particularly most rangers). Therefore they would only have a maximum of two creatures with them (not a huge benefit) in the average case. I believe that anyone with a higher charisma would be penalized now that PCs cannot purchase statistic points with glory and even having four bears would not make up for their consequently low STR, CON, or DEX.

[Nysan]

CHA Score Range Minion Limit
=========== ========
1-3-----------------0
4-7-----------------1
7-13----------------2
14-17---------------3
18-21---------------4

Like Selveem said: most PCs have average charisma scores. I would go a step further and say that most people probably fall between 7-13 (particularly most rangers). Therefore they would only have a maximum of two creatures with them (not a huge benefit) in the average case. I believe that anyone with a higher charisma would be penalized now that PCs cannot purchase statistic points with glory and even having four bears would not make up for their consequently low STR, CON, or DEX.

Nothing really to add, besides agreeing high CHA is a rarity in general and those with high CHA lack elsewhere to balance it out. The days of glory stats are over and high-stat sacrifices are common. I have never been one to play characters that need/want a boatload of minions, so I have been silent on this topic. But I felt like commenting on stats... that and my endless desire to one day own more than one cart, or similar devices. That is a different thread though,