Resizing Magic clothing and armour (Not Weapons)

[Gwain]

Since the changes to armour and layers as well as magical items came into the game, making things more balanced I had wondered why we don't have resizing capabilities for magical clothing and armour. I can understand the reservation on resizing magical weapons, because they can be duel wielded and abused, but magical armours certainly can be worn no matter the size, they are just more prone to damage and less protection, also they are flagged as too tight or too large. I'd like to suggest allowing npc tailors the ability to resize magical clothing so that it fits properly, it would probably make more sense to charge a lot more to resize magical clothing too.

[Aveline]

Mystran tailor! ...just saying.. I agree with this!

[Selveem]

I'm too lazy to search for it, but I think this has been brought up a few times in the past.

That being said, as a player with characters of all three available PC sizes, I highly agree with this. Honestly, I don't see why tailor should even be used in such a way; it's really just an extra step to rectify something that should be a reward to the character to begin with.

Magic weapons I don't agree with auto-resizing. Why? Because not every character would want something of proper size for them. Sure, they take a penalty for it being the incorrect size, but that's their option. In the case of resizing magical weapons, I think it'd be nice if there was a way to do it via talented weaponsmithing mobile at cost like there is for regular armor and weapons. To be clear, I'm not saying that characters should automatically get to wield weapons they wouldn't normally be able to.

For those who don't know, here are the rules on inappropriately sized weapons.

Inappropriately Sized Weapons

A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon a -4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.

In short, a medium greatsword that has been made larger cannot be wielded by a medium sized creature anymore (because it's a step above two-handed now). A medium broadsword that's been made smaller is now considered a light weapon. These changes also affect weapon damage; that information's also available on the site.

[Nysan]

No comment on weapon sizing.

Armor, fully support. Far to many desirable armor pieces are overlooked or underused because they are size small or large. Add to that the higher price to repair magical items and these items scream "resize me!". This goes for jewellery pieces as well: bracelets, bracers, rings, and such.

[Nysan]

I know the last comment was from me, but I feel strongly about this topic.

With random quest rewards and new quests popping up, a large number of unique or just plain interesting armor pieces are appearing in the game. It is a shame to see these items end up on traveling merchants or Brian's because they are large/small size and no one can locate a magic resizing mob. Add onto that the cost of repairing magics, which will happen more frequent with ill-fitting gear, and the temptation to just NPC vendor it for a stack of coin is very high. A pity since such items could have become a character's favored possession if it was merely a different size.

Three possible solutions...

1. Auto-resize flags, much like those used on amulets of communication, symbols of faith, and newbie gear. A bit extreme, to me, but a safe fix for future magical armor every builder knows how to use, or could learn quickly.

2. Updating one or more vendors to resize magics. I realize the temptation to tuck a vendor away deep in a quest area that can do this, still I advise against it. Resizing gear should take a bit of effort, extensive travel maybe, however a high level quest area (likely death) seems like overkill.

3. A new spell. Yeah, yeah... more power for casters, I know. It still is an interesting alternative. Fits right in with current spells like "Identity" and "Make Whole" that already revolve around magical item usage/upkeep.

(To be clear, this post was about armor, not weapons.)

[Athon]

I also agree that something will probably need to be done to allow the resizing of magical clothing and armour.

I just received a random reward today that were a very nice pair of boots, but size large so I am now unencouraged to wear them. The only 'playable' race that can use large armour effectively are centaur, but those are so few and far between that it's really not practical.

Edit: To clarify, centaurs can't wear boots. I meant 'effectively' in that they don't suffer a penalty from large armour.

[Enig]

I'm definitely solidly in agreement with this, especially the comment about large armour, considering that it's not possible to make any create a PC of any large race now, if approximately 33% of all armour found is large that's a lot of armour that can't really be effectively used.

[Selveem]

To be fair, I've only encountered small and medium sized armor.

I've seen other armor for sale, but the cost of magical armor makes it not worth purchasing even on characters that could benefit from it. Why buy magical banded type armor when you can buy regular fullplate for cheaper (in comparison, not that full plate is, by any stretch of the imagination, cheap) and get higher AC?

I've already stated I definitely agree that there should be an option; I'm not in favor of a spell-only solution, but it would be a nice alternative. That said, I feel (in case it's not being taken into account yet) that magical shields should also be able to be resized.

[Lirith]

I have another case of a pair of large sized boots being given as a reward.

I don't know what that ratio is set at regarding what size item is produced; I've had one small and one large on the same character out of two quests, but that's too small a number to have any idea of the generation.

[Mask]

The percentage chance of a large item is fairly slim, the vast majority should be 'medium' with 'small' items coming in about 4 times as often as large items.

I would favour a spell for resizing over tailoring, personally...

[Selveem]

I would favour a spell for resizing over tailoring, personally...

I agree if we're talking about the old incarnation of tailoring. I think Gilain's the only GM Armorsmith around anymore and his time is limited. Besides, beggars can't be choosers. ;D

[Harroghty]

I will admit up front that I have only ever played one spellcaster and it was for about a week, and 15 years ago. However, I did some research and thought that we could modify this spell from Candlekeep's Forgotten Realms Netbook 4.

Feldegast's Alter Appearance (alt)

• Level: 3
  Cast time: 1 day
  Duration: permanent
  Area effect: caster
  Saving throw: none

This spell alters the caster's appearance, but the change is permanent alteration, not illusionary; dispel magic will not change the appearance back.

[Nysan]

I would favour a spell for resizing over tailoring, personally...

I agree if we're talking about the old incarnation of tailoring. I think Gilain's the only GM Armorsmith around anymore and his time is limited. Besides, beggars can't be choosers. ;D

*shrug* I do what I can, when I can (college is demanding).

Not that tailor, or mend, actually work these days anyways. I do miss repairing my own crafts...

[Nysan]

I will admit up front that I have only ever played one spellcaster and it was for about a week, and 15 years ago. However, I did some research and thought that we could modify this spell from Candlekeep's Forgotten Realms Netbook 4.

Feldegast's Alter Appearance (alt)

• Level: 3
  Cast time: 1 day
  Duration: permanent
  Area effect: caster
  Saving throw: none

This spell alters the caster's appearance, but the change is permanent alteration, not illusionary; dispel magic will not change the appearance back.

If we are leaning towards a spell for resizing, please be kind on component requirements. "Make Whole" makes any non-miner shudder, would hate to see this reoccur in a resize spell.

[Gwain]

If it is a spell, it should do one thing that conventional tailoring cannot do (if hardcode allows it)

It should allow for an article of clothing to be resized more than once,

[Selveem]

I agree with Gwain and Nysan both.

As a non-miner, Make Whole is rather a pain in the butt. At the same time, I don't think it should be super expensive, either, since the players don't control the size of the object given to them as part of the quest reward.

[Brar]

I completly agree with that...

But I failed to see the reasoning behind not resizing weapons, if you prefer to get a malus to hit to get a bonus to damage, why could you not? it's very limiting to force people to not being able to choose to do it how they want it...

Again, do not confuse, weapon size and weapon type (a small shortsword is not a medium dagger or a tiny longsword, it is only a small shortsword).


Brar

[Gwain]

Resizing weapons that are magical can be abused by a few classes with dual wield capabilities. Instead of having one magical weapon in your hands you can have two and benefit from the bonuses of that weapon. The reason I created a specific posting for clothing was that resizing magical weapons has been discussed before and been discredited numerous times, while armour and clothes have not. Since we only have one set of sleeves, one torso and so forth, armour cannot be dual wielded/doubled, therefore its abuse proof for the most part. I see the merit of resizing down large or giant magical weapons to manageable sizes, but its still different from clothing.

I'd suggest opening another forum thread to discuss the merits of magical weapon resizing and keeping this one for clothing only as they are quite different.

[Enig]

Weapon bonuses aren't stacked, either. If I have two +1 longswords they don't magically become +2 just because I'm wielding them together. There's no bug here, and as far as I can tell, there's no justification for calling dual-wielding magical weapons abuse.

[Gwain]

If its been changed to not affect bonuses or offer any advantages other than the ability to wield two magical weapons at a time then that's good. However I'd still suggest a separate forum for magical weapon resizes.