Hometown based guild support

[Mask]

As mentioned in my other post, the aim is to add hometown based Adventurer's Guild support to provide a support network for adventurers young and old. Obviously, one of the first hometowns to get this kind of support will be Waterdeep. The second should either be in Zhentil Keep or Westgate - any opinions as to which would be better?

Any suggestions for canon 'stuff' we can base this on in each case? The more suggestions the better, in my opinion.

[Briek]

I'd say that Westgate is probably a better location, from an IC standpoint I'd imagine that in ZK
every organisation is kept on close watch by the Cyricists, Westgate is a better neutral to evil location.

[Athon]

My list would go:

1) Waterdeep
2) Westgate (Would be able to cover all alignments and seems more RP-likely than an adventurers guild in the Zhentarim-run ZK)
3) Skullport (Good for Drow and other underdark PCs; would be really fun if a second, 'higher-up' guild was introduced in Skullport for very experienced players to quest in the Underdark)

[Selveem]

I'm going to have to say:

Waterdeep
Zhentil Keep
Westgate
Menzo

My reasoning is that the type of players we're going to attract with the "Forgotten Kingdoms" name and being "Forgotten Realms"-based MUD are probably likely to have some FR exposure. Waterdeep is the starting area, so that always comes first, but most FR players probably know about ZK and Menzo. As Westgate covers a broader range of alignments, it gets a leg up on Menzo.

[Brar]

I think this way could be nice.

Waterdeep (no question about that)
Westgate (broader alignment)
Golden Oak / Mithril Hall (racial stuff)
Skullport (for the downer)
the rest

I hesitating between the place for skullport and the racial hometown but I think they should also deserves some love.

[Mask]

I'm inclined to not try to spread ourselves too thin. The things we will need for this to work are:

1) Some good lowbie areas already there (we can add more, but the easier the starting position the better).

2) Good 'coverage' in terms of possible membership.

3) A good 'canon' idea to go with it might be nice but not essential - the key is that it is for adventurers rather than politicians!

I'm inclined towards Waterdeep and ZK, and maybe open ZK up a bit?

[Zasheir]

3) A good 'canon' idea to go with it might be nice but not essential - the key is that it is for adventurers rather than politicians!

Since this part of Mask's request hasn't really been addressed, I'll go ahead and make the really obvious suggestion: Tymorans! Branches of this adventuring guild could easily borrow a spare room in a Tymoran temple or two.

While every deity in the game has plenty of adventurer followers (after all, every PC worshipper is an adventurer), Tymora is the goddess of adventurers. Tymora's followers often sponsor adventurers, be it with equipment, information, money, or magical support. In addition, Tymoran temples are all over the face of Faerun, including Waterdeep (The Tower of Luck led by Seenroas Halvinhar), Westgate (Fortuneboon Hall led by Lord Priest Kismet Burrowtoes), and even Zhentil Keep (Tymora's Holy Hall of Good Fortune and Casino led by Lucklady Demetria Fortunato). Sorry, Underdark; no Tymoran love for you.

When supporting adventurers, I haven't seen any canon sources that suggest that Tymorans would get very political, so they should be able to help adventurers of all alignments (unlike Express Deliveries, which will assign jobs that evil characters can't complete). The point is to encourage successful adventures (which is enough to prove Tymora's glory); it doesn't really matter if the adventurers are good or evil. However, even the most tolerant of Tymorans would probably refuse to knowingly aid a Beshaban, which, in this situation, could be a problem.

Basing these things in Tymoran temples probably isn't what you had in mind, Mask, but I had to go ahead and state the obvious. The fact that people too often forget Who watches over them on adventures might have something to do with it, too.

[Mask]

You're right - I don't think we want either a global or a faith-based initiative - there has to be a more inclusive 'grouping' than is pantheistic rather than devoted to a single faith.

To attempt to finalise locations first, I do think the first two should be WD and ZK, with the third being Skullport - do people agree? The problem with Westgate is that the town is kind of dead - there isn't alot going on there, while ZK offers a little more of a base to work from?

[Selveem]

Sounds good to me.

[Brar]

A very good site of inspiration for me is Raflar..You sue all know about it right? (http://www.raflar.com/waterdeep/index.php)

[Harroghty]

I am about to bow out of this discussion (and the forums) for about a week, but I wanted to weigh in a little bit here before that happens.

The first guild has a great stage described in The Inn of the Dripping Dagger and the Snookery (see VGtWD in the section about the Trades Ward, roughly pg. 111). It is an inn that has hosted adventuring companies before, is probably the best place in Waterdeep to hire mercenaries, and boasts all the necessary amenities. Even better, it is known for the good temperament of its patronage (a young Alusair Obarskyr played dice with some mercenaries when she took off running from her father as a girl of eleven) and so it would be great for the "newbie city" of Waterdeep. I put this out only as an example of where I believe that we should go with these.

Faiths and global organizations have proven unsuccessful in the past due to limited population. A guild organization with regional ties is much more ...ecumenical (although they too develop some character of their own, see Gold & Glory TSR 9373 for some examples).

[Gwain]

There is limited success with the Waterdeep Watch ( or was, depending on current activities.) A dedicated forum thread, an active npc base and payment incentives in a populated place helped drum up interest. It sort of died down as less and less players made themselves and activities that are called for watchmen occurred more and more sporadicly. The same can be said of the Zhentarim, which are almost identical in coding to the watch, which also suffers from being in an area that is underpopulated by situations calling for zhent intervention. The best solution is leadership, be it imm driven or player driven that is continuous for any society or guild created. Not just for the watch and zhents, but for any new guilds formed. The only way they can last longer than a few months would be for leadership to have set rules on recruiting, a way to plan events and incentives for continued strength and popularity. A regular rotunda of members that lead based on activity: Elections that happen regularly, devoted forums and standards for membership as well as territories would probably work. Its a bit static though, in this business nothing really can last longer than a few years, more than likely guilds will rise and fall or merge and be conquered.

[Mask]

The idea being proposed still doesn't seem particularly clear - so let me try and flesh out how it might work a little more:

1) First and foremost, there will be a level of support for lowbie characters upon creation - to give them some suggestions on how they might earn coin, to share 'rumours' which might include something like 'I heard that the Friendly Arms Inn to the south is beset by goblins - to find it, just follow the road south of Waterdeep, but I'd buy a horse first as it's a long way.'

2) When a lowbie joins the guild (and they should be directed to it straight out of the creation area), a message might go out to all other currently logged members of the guild to indicate that someone might need assistance and advice.

3) When any member of the guild wants to go on an adventure, there might be some mechanism to all other guild members asking them if they wish to participate.

4) After we have say, two such guilds set up, we might create some 'resource' that would be desirable to the guild, and then provide some 'hints' and both guilds would compete to take control of it. For example, we could create a rich vein of adamantium somewhere and it would be something of a race between the guilds to get it. This could then be stored in the guild store house and used to create new arms or armour by guild smiths. (this is just off the top of my head).

5) The focus would be on adventuring, not on enforcing rules like impounding mounts for public defecation (seriously - the game is supposed to be fun...this is tongue in cheek funny the first time, and tiresome from then on) or endlessly discussing city budgets and laws.

[Gwain]

5) The focus would be on adventuring, not on enforcing rules like impounding mounts for public defecation (seriously - the game is supposed to be fun...this is tongue in cheek funny the first time, and tiresome from then on) or endlessly discussing city budgets and laws.

I'm in complete agreement, That kind of situation should be handled by mobiles.

I do think a rigid structure of events and leadership is still key. Its great and all to have something that everyone can get behind, but the important thing would be to have it last longer than one or two months. The other elements (Lawkeepers, Waterdeep Council, Storytelling Group etc.) All went downward because though there was/is support, it was far and between, droughts between events etc, event managers going on leaves, hours long meetings with no direct results.

What I like about what you are proposing is the automatic response system, the ability for the game to manage players instead of players managing players. The resource system for guilds and automatic notices on joining seem a winner. The emphasis on adventure over administration seems geared towards captivating players more by adventuring roleplay than standing around roleplay, which will appeal to most.

If it can be done, I'd be for it.

[Selveem]

I agree with what Gwain said, with one exception:

I really like this idea but I don't think guild hierarchy should come into play. After all, that's the issue we have with Faiths. Having to rely on a (for the most part, singular) FM and expecting them to log on has been problematic numerous times even after it was said they'd be demoted if they didn't log on within a certain amount of time.

Make it easy to participate.
Don't make it require key people to run.
Make it fun for the participants.
Offer incentives for the higher levels to help the lower ones such as a vein that only loads a specific type of metal such as Mask suggested.
Keep it simple to understand and use for both parties (those needing help and the ones helping).
Make rewards automated (if you're going to offer a vein, let a mob create it automatically).

These are the things that allow for continuity. Start with a good base and, if need be, improve upon it later.

I'm curious how the competitive guilds would come into play. As Waterdeep has the bulk of new players (especially newbies), they're at a natural advantage in my eyes. Do guilds need to be competitive to get goodies? Perhaps just filling quotas of completed tasks is enough to gain them access to special rewards?

[Hrosskell]

I know that the Forgotten Kingdoms community--staff and playerbase alike--enjoy distinguishing this game from the run of the mill grinding MMO today, but I think the first thing that comes to mind when I look at this suggestion is something similar to the Dungeon Finder that was recently implemented into World of Warcraft.

The way the dungeon finder works is that it puts you in a list randomly with your possible roles selected, then matches you up with similarly geared players from across the different realms, and you guys get ported to the dungeon and do your business. It's shown great success for individual players with not so much time for grinding and finding groups on their own.

The way I could see the adventurer's guild working is like an IC form of the dungeon finder; keeping a list (the queue, if you will) of adventurers who are available and ready--adventurers could put themselves on the list (in the queue) by use of a command if such a feature was desired; it may be able to provide a sense of "experience" or even the class of the PC and try to match appropriate characters together if such depth and a tracking system were implemented. The way it would differ from the Dungeon Finder in WoW would be that it's an entirely IC scenario--the guild sets you up with other adventurers, and it's your (or their) job to meet up, get along, make travel arrangements, etc., but beyond a vague sense of knowing who eachother are from a mutually-worked-for establishment, the role of fleshing out the adventure falls solely on the people involved.

A new series of quests could be added to existing dungeons exemplary of their level/skill req. that are like "meta-quests" from the guild. Completing these quests that range in difficulty from easy to frighteningly difficult/challenging could be how the guild ranking system could work, again, if rank is a feature that was suggested for the system as a whole.

I'd like to say that I don't think we should turn the MUD into an MMO grind-fest, but there is a reason the formula of dungeons and quest grinding works--it's easy to understand, yet still reasonably challenging to complete dungeons and quests in them. I don't think a streamlined, challenging, co-operation inspiring dungeon/quest experience is something that the MUD should at this point decline an opportunity to exist.

P.S. - just bouncing ideas off the community, so if there are any major flaws, goals I forgot to address, etc. please do offer up some creative criticism.

[Gwain]

Turning towards a voluntary dungeon grinding atmosphere may be the easiest and longest term solution to attracting new players. I don't really do it myself, I enjoy the rp, but it seems to be working to a great affect for other online games. If this change results in that and works, I'd be content, just as long as the capability for rp and in character roleplay remains.

[Duranamir]

I like the group finder idea, there a number of areas around the mud that work best with groups, often in quite out of the way places. Some programattic way of sending appropriate level groups to them can only be a plus.

It would also encourage building more such areas to fill in the various level gaps. I for one enjoy building quest type areas more than RP type areas.

Duranamir

[Brar]

I'm all for the group finding tools.

It will be a big helps for people that does not live in city to meet and group.

I am even a bigger fan of the alt-aware tool for the "lesser more secluded races" like drows and dwarves.

It will surely be a big motivation for peoples to play their less played alt of those races.

I don't see a problem with turning more toward dungeoneering, it was during dungeon delving that I had what I consider the best RP times in FK (my expedition to Ssazrin was really the best time ever I had, even considering the bugs and all )

Everyone jsut need to remind that even when questing, you have to stay IC and RP things, that is for me what is the most fun

And it will also helps the imms to find the adventurers group easier if they want to meddle in their affairs.

Brar

[Eltsac]

Alright... just had an idea passing through my mind... not sure if it's good or not...

It is not always easy to find the right group for a quest (or to find a quest to do as a group) as all need to be at the same step of the quest to go forward together.

My idea is... having some repeatable quests giver for groups (like the express deliveries for group quest), usable once per day. Quest giver could be in the adventure guild.
So people can gather, wanting to quest together.
They go see the NPC. When everyone is there, the leader ask for a mission which is automatically given to all members of the group.

This can be used only once a day. For a simple, group adventure.
If the quest is not completed within 12h, it will be automatically cancelled so one can not cumulate such quests.

The quest would be chosen between a large range of group quests, of different levels, that are ICly repeatable.


I'm afraid of abuse if the level of the given quest is based on the level of the group leader. Need to check if it's possible to determine the average level of the group.


Just my idea to encourrage people to group for adventure.

El