Identify on merchant

[Gwain]

I would reiterate that I believe the only people that should be able to see if something is magical in a merchant's inventory are people under the influence of detect magic. Merchants don't need to tell someone something is magical in order to sell it, they simply have to hope that the potential customer is going to pay that much outright for merchandise. The biggest shame of it to a merchant is that though they get the money, they don't keep the merchandize to sell and sell again, they don't need to tell us what is magical or not, we need to imbue ourselves with the knowledge neccessary through spellcraft or lore to know enough about what we are paying high prices for.

[Brar]

I agree with Harroghty and Gwain on this one.

I also think that it should be dependant on the player ressource.
And no, a warrior or priest won't be able to identify a weapon, bad for them but they are not supposed to be ...

I would even go as far as making a counter haggle skill for merchant (who said sense motive?? ) that allows them to makes the prices higher than normal prices, that's their job and what they are about after all.

[exceptional mercantile skill] could very well be applied to FK merchants

Brar

(Dude, no. Post edited to remove unnecessary racial insult. -Enig)

[Selveem]

If the wealth and items received from killing of mobs was what it should be, then I could agree with it. If I got magic items from killing Demons, I could understand. If the economies were set so that the cities would run out of money (like no one adventuring party could wreck WD's economy in D&D like a single player can do in FK), I might be more welcoming. And, if the mobs would actually purchase things like spells and scrolls, I might agree and find the idea appealing.

However tear back all those dreams and you find it is what it is.

In D&D, the wizard of your party would be able to make sure you didn't get took; we're playing a MUD where you can't identify other people's stuff because there's code in place that prevents it.

In D&D, if you don't have a wizard in your party, you can hire one as a henchman; not so in FK.

In D&D, the thief of your party would take care of an item that some annoying shopkeeper is trying to cheat you on (or take care of the shopkeeper themselves, in some cases). This option IS available in FK.. <.<

I don't see anything unbalancing by just telling people if an item is magical without detection spells on from a reputable vendor. I also don't see how identifying an object would destabilize the MUD; it's most likely the vendor would have found out what an object is and what it does. They'd boast about its properties as it would make it even more valuable to those seeking such items.

[Enig]

No offense intended, Harroghty, but your justification doesn't quite make sense to me; the south americans may not have seen a ship before, and therefore had no idea of their true value or purpose, but you can't say the same about merchants in FK and swords so the whole thing is like apples and oranges. Moreover, the argument falls apart even more when you end up in a situation where you have something like 'a heavy oak-handled steel longsword' (+1) selling for ten or fifteen times the price of something like 'a jewel-encrusted silver bastard sword' (neither enchanted nor masterwork), which can most certainly happen if the code is left to its own devices.

Anyways! My opinion is that we should offer the PC the advantages of magic detection and item identification, with limitations and charges associated with it. It would take a bit of work, but ideally we could add flags to the swanker establishments in the game (ie. Bradigan, Delborrgan, etc) that would allow for magical items to be indicated in their inventory list and adjust the prices of said shops upwards accordingly. Specialised merchants (like Hilmer) could have a seperate field set (much like the way we do item repair now) that would allow them to show the identification information when their items are examined (with either a small fee per identification or another bump up in their overall selling %).

In theory, quite a lot of work, but in practice I think we'd be able to make some significant changes even if we just altered the dozen or so merchants that see the most business from PCs.

[Gwain]

It really does not seem as difficult to simply take a wizard or cleric along with you when you go to buy things, or to purchase brewed potions of detect magic. I don't understand the need or desire to have merchants that do the detection spells for you. Sure if you are alone and a thousand spans away from your hometown, it might pay to have a merchant tell you if something they are selling is magic, or if you are a crazed loner and can't take anyone along. Speaking as someone that does not have a character that can identify, I sometimes have to wait a little before I can find someone with the spell to do it for me.

I'm about simplicity when it comes to this system, because this system is a frill. In essence, we don't need it because we buy things even if they are not magical, but because they look nice and for such high prieces could be magic, but it will help us in the sense tha we'll make wiser choices. I don't see the need to have special sections on merchants. In fact, combining the peer command on merchant mobiles along with the dectect magic command could facilitate the change. I'm not sure of the coding applications but it could be the best solution.

So to reiterate My refined idea would be:

Combine the peer command on merchant mobiles along with the dectect magic command to allow those imbued with detect magic to see magic auras on items.

[Harroghty]

I believe that Gwain hit it on the head: it makes sense to limit this to those affected by the spell in order to encourage group interaction. If anyone could do it then why bother a wizard for such a thing?

[Zorinar]

Well, this could drive up the sales of detect magic potions at least.

[Raona]

I'm not going to propose an enhancement draft just yet, in case anyone else wants to chime in, but will summarize that:

1) I think everyone is in favor of letting appropriately capable spellslingers use identify and detect magic on merchant inventories
2) Up for debate is the question of whether merchants should provide either of these services themselves

My comments on 2): If we wanted NPCs to offer either of these, it would make sense to have dedicated NPCs in the game, and we don't. I think that was a conscious decision, though it may bear revisiting.

If we do offer 2), I think it should be limited to appropriately capable shopkeepers, or at least shopkeepers operating in locales where the requisite magical ability is available (that is, SOMEONE in the town is a wizard-type).

As someone who plays in the "off hours," I can identify with the frustration of having no avenue by which one can have an item identified. On balance, though, I haven't thought this worthy of arguing for change on.

[Eltsac]

If we chose the option to have only some shop keepers with detect magic / identify (a flag on the merchant) :

What about... if a merchant is capable to give you detect magic / identify services, he will buy magical items at good price too.
If not, he would buy and sell them at non magical price (or at greatly reduced price).

Would make sense ICly.
Could also be fun to be able to make a 'good buy' because someone sold a magical dagger to a village shop keeper whithout knowing it was magical.

El

[Raona]

I like that!

Need to add: those without magic but the ability to appraise, it would be nice if they could appraise items in others inventories, including shopkeepers.

[Nylo]

Is there any progress on adding the ability to use 'detect magic'? That seems to be the one thing everyone agrees on.

[Selveem]

Old post, but I was curious of much the same.

[Gwain]

For the last several months, since around the new year (Or a bit earlier) characters with the means to, have the ability to detect magic on items for sale and to see glowing flags on for sale items. Items for sale are also in a scale according to price. Very good and essential updates

[Selveem]

Very nice; thanks Gwain and team. Could we lock the thread please?

[Tarven]

If I found a big shiny sword then I would charge you through the nose for it and I'd probably tell you that it was magical whether I knew or not. I would have no motivation to go through the trouble of identifying it because the average adventurer would buy a big shiny sword just because it was big and shiny, especially if I told him it was magical. If he or she is not pleased with their purchase then they can shop at the other most highly trafficked merchant in Waterdeep.

"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the [Faerunian] public."

Yeah, but this is a world of powerful mages, worshipers of dark gods, deliverers of divine justice, and people that can break down doors with their head while wearing a VW bug in a stylish fashion. Let alone thieves.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, and I'll cut off your leg, poison your dog, make you see illusionary (or maybe even real) demons, or peel the flesh from your body with a prayer.

"Nobody ever lived long double crossing a Faerunian adventurer."

Knowhutahmean?

[Tarven]

So, having fully read the thread, and not been around before the implementation of the ability to detect magic, I'd like to toss a couple real quick things...

First, would it be so unbalancing to have a vendor or three out there that can sell potions of detect magic for around 15-20 plat? I mean, this would be less abusive than someone making a priest character (who would receive detect magic) just for the purposes of checking lists. It's also enough of a price that most people would probably have a buddy check for them, if possible, before dropping the coin.

Secondly, what about identifying items that shops have? It stands to reason that a merchant with a lick of sense would be willing to let the caster identify an item, rather than miss out on a sale alltogether. With the number of cloaks, rings, gloves, bracers, boots and hats with magical properties in the game, this seems sensible to me. Otherwise, once the vendor has them, they'll sit there forever, because who wants to drop 50p on a cloak, even if it's pretty, if they can't tell what it's going to do?

Alternatively, would it be tough to put a flag on an item for, say, 5 minutes (IRL) time that will make it so that a vendor will buy back anything bought at the price purchased?

"Sure, sure, friend.. try the boots on, walk around the room, test their feel." or "Yes, that cloak looks lovely on you!"

Essentially, you'd need to have the coin to at least be able to buy the item, before wasting the merchant's time, but once he saw that coin.. well... he'd be willing to work a little for it!