Improved Brawling Feat Tree

[Harroghty]

I will begin by saying that this is not based in some source book, although I am sure that something similar could be found in one.

I believe that it would be sensible to add some more feats to the brawling feat tree in order to allow people to create something like a "monk" (or any of the old fighter kits like barbarian, gladiator, savage, etc.) if they so desired by modifying a cleric or warrior. Specifically, I recommend two additions.

Improved Striking
Prerequisite: Improved Brawling feat
This feat allows you to use all of your attack skills when unarmed. e.g. If you are a fighter with second through fifth attack trained you would receive five attacks when unarmed instead of only one.

Improved Grappling
Prerequisite: Improved Brawling feat
This feat allows you to use the disarm, bash, and stun when unarmed or (not carrying a shield). It also applies a small bonus to your ability to bash or stun (whatever would be fair and make sense).

[Lylena]

I believe that it would be sensible to add some more feats to the brawling feat tree in order to allow people to create something like a "monk" (or any of the old fighter kits like barbarian, gladiator, savage, etc. if they so desired by modifying a cleric or warrior.

For the reasons listed, I like this idea. Even without the reasons, if it were implemented the option can be there for those who'd like to try it out or specialize more than just improved brawling.

[Selveem]

Improved Striking
Prerequisite: Improved Brawling feat
This feat allows you to use all of your attack skills when unarmed. e.g. If you are a fighter with second through fifth attack trained you would receive five attacks when unarmed instead of only one.

This should be the case without a feat. I'm really not sure why it isn't.

[Khelebhzed]

I like this idea a lot. Though, I would like to see it expanded, maybe bring back a version of the deflect arrows feat and allow for unarmed parrying as well with it. Perhaps you need to have trained lightning reflexes in addition to imrpoved brawling. Should those taking these feats have to give up other weapon skills, or maybe take extra penalties as a result in their use? Shall a Gm'd weapon skill or weapon proficiency allow one to bypass these extra penalties? A martial brawling feat would be nice, allowing a diversity of chops or jabs which in essence allow for a chance of attacks to slash or pierce instead. If we are following Monk style feats in addition to brawling, a fun one would be something like: Acrobatics, make a reflex check when moving into a room over water or air. In essence you are leaping through the air or running on water. Mechanically you would be briefly levitating, the affect wearing off very quickly. Moving to another such room will trigger another check, but each time it is successively harder to make. If you fail, you 'fall' and make your normal swim or climb checks.

[Harroghty]

I disagree with unarmed parrying because you would not want to "ward off" a blow without something to prevent harm to yourself. It's not realistic.

I like some of your other ideas though. I do think that a third feat might make sense.

Martial Arts Specialization
Prerequisite: Improved Striking
This feat further modifies the damage done by your unarmed attacks (kick or punch) based upon the relevant skill levels. e.g. a master skill level in punch now confers and additional to hit and damage bonus as the PC executes a "haymaker".

[Hrosskell]

I think if all the effort were going to go into coding these feats, it wouldn't be a huge step to just make monks and give them the abilities as they level. I'd be interested in doing some reading/writing for a monk guild hall if that became the case.

[Nylo]

Perhaps the skill stun, for those who can learn it, could be performed barehanded after taking the feat?

[Selveem]

Original reason, from what I remember, for not adding Monks or Barbarians was that there wasn't enough to differentiate them from Fighters.

With the inclusion of saves and a few feats, this could easily be a meme of the past.

[Harroghty]

The beauty of creating feats with similar abilities to some of those classes is that it allows more flexibility. A fighter could train to any of a wide range of kits (more of a 2d Edition style) and the permutations of the combinations increase the potential for variety far beyond only adding one or two new classes.

[Gwain]

I'd agree, its enough to train your current guilded fighter or cleric specifically to mimic a monk or barbarian then to apply to be recognized as such or to proceed as the rules govern.

[Selveem]

I'm opposed to this for two reasons.

The first is because we already have quite a few staple Fighter feats that are still not widely available to all race, class, and alignments in the game. Some aren't available at all. If we can't even get the stock stuff agreed upon to be added, why is discussing even more a good idea?

The second (and more important) reason is because using feats as a patch is really, really not the same at all.

You can't train your Fighter to have the natural saves a Monk would have. Additionally, you wouldn't get a lot of the abilities (such as slowfall), flurry of blows, evasion, unarmed increases in damage (and bypassing damage reduction with them), or the bonus of high AC while not wearing armor. Another thing that rocks, for Monks, is Tongue of the Sun and Moon: speak with any living creature. Not to mention, of course, the Quivering Palm technique. If that wasn't enough, they can freaking go ethereal!

Barbarians get the unique ability to enter a rage. During that rage, their strength and constitution rise well beyond normal means (up to +8, each) AND it stacks with magic gear (!!!). They get NATURAL damage reduction as they level. They can't be sneak-attacked by someone who isn't at least four levels higher them. They're outright vicious!

These are both very unique and can't be encompassed properly just by putting a few more feats in the game and telling Fighters to have at it. More importantly, it rounds out our missing classes and is yet another feather in our cap to draw new players in.