Dwarves and magic and riding
ok, this stuff just makes me mad. Braeck has a pony... and he swims. Why, you ask? It's not dwarven... but he figured a fighter might need to do many distateful things, especially if ordered to because it was needful. He didn't enjoy it, but he did it. So I guess he's a twink. He leveled fast..he was a fighter, couldn't find a lot of people on late, so he learned all he could of weaponcraft because he's a fighter. Hasn't grand mastered anything that he didn't get as a dwarf because people don't want him twinking. Hasn't learned as much about mining and smelting, because mainly he likes to fight...keeps getting bored just tapping at the walls. But he realized it was the best way to get metal and to make the weapons and armour he wants..but NOOOO he's a twink! I made a special application for Braeck to be mute because I didn't know he'd need it, but it was accepted with the limited background behind it... why is he mute? I had a real tough time trying to talk like they were supposed to. Then they had the dwarven accent program. God I loved that.. now he's gotten used to mindspeaking to avoid talking, people are de-tuniing, but he'll live with that... Braeck finally has more hours online than Belose.. never thought it would happen, but he passed 500 hours. For various reasons, Belose won't be seen much anymore, the only reason I played him again was the new spell system and other changes made me give him a chance. But still, I have a lot of other alts I play, and I made those because I wanted to see what other classes and races might be like. But one of them is a halfelf and has aged 20 years simply because I don't have the time to get on as much and still spread it among the others. And then I have to read how everyone wants to limit things, or make them more life like. I came to play to have fun and do things less life like. Like Mele said I wish more people would quit worrying about everyone else's character and just concentrate on playing their own, THEIR way. Sorry about the rambling, but I needed to say it. So I guess I was just wondering, do I kill Braeck off? Or do I need to get rid of my pony? By the way, the pony spends more time as my storage for all my weapons than as a mount.... Braeck mostly walks!
What the Mind of a man can conceive, the Will of a man can achieve.
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Japcil
- Sword Grand Master
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I doubt that in any case of having to kill off a character. Everything that is ever strayed from RP wise can be fixed with RP. Like the riding, if its ruled upon and enforced that no dwarf shall ride any mount then roleplay falling off and swearing to never ride again.
The common misconception with twinking and leveling is that if you put some effort to roleplay into it then its not twinking. An example, My gnome could walk into a room with a wyvern and code wise kill it. Now lets think about that. Hmm a tiny gnome against a fierce dragon.. not gunna happen. So think about where you train and ask would my character really go here?
Another example of, to me, poor choosing in leveling areas is the friendly arm inn, If you resent any form of helping anyone especially humans and gnomes, why are you saving an inn from attacking forces?
Now I hope my examples aren't taken as an attack at any characters. I for one am guilty of all of the above but I have learned through my years of playing here to think IC and not OOC.
Training skills and trades to me is defining your character not twinking. If a dwarf chooses to mine and smelt all the time they are RP that, that is what their character enjoys in life. If they like to fight, well they are honing their skills for the one day to prove to their deity or clan that they are needed in times of distress. Just do more than type kill mob, smote a few things, dont just bury the corpse afterwards, smote out a prayer.
And remember most dwarves are stubborn when it comes to weave magic and riding animals. If your dwarf isnt, then power to you, just remember to ask the concerned parties for permission, since if one person sees you playing like that and thinks its ok then they might RP like that and then we have another Drizzt problem now with dwarves.
The common misconception with twinking and leveling is that if you put some effort to roleplay into it then its not twinking. An example, My gnome could walk into a room with a wyvern and code wise kill it. Now lets think about that. Hmm a tiny gnome against a fierce dragon.. not gunna happen. So think about where you train and ask would my character really go here?
Another example of, to me, poor choosing in leveling areas is the friendly arm inn, If you resent any form of helping anyone especially humans and gnomes, why are you saving an inn from attacking forces?
Now I hope my examples aren't taken as an attack at any characters. I for one am guilty of all of the above but I have learned through my years of playing here to think IC and not OOC.
Training skills and trades to me is defining your character not twinking. If a dwarf chooses to mine and smelt all the time they are RP that, that is what their character enjoys in life. If they like to fight, well they are honing their skills for the one day to prove to their deity or clan that they are needed in times of distress. Just do more than type kill mob, smote a few things, dont just bury the corpse afterwards, smote out a prayer.
And remember most dwarves are stubborn when it comes to weave magic and riding animals. If your dwarf isnt, then power to you, just remember to ask the concerned parties for permission, since if one person sees you playing like that and thinks its ok then they might RP like that and then we have another Drizzt problem now with dwarves.
Let's perhaps focus on the subject in this thread rather than join it up with the debate around levelling and the notion of twinking.
To play a dwarf that rides swims or flies is not prohibited. To play a dwarf that likes mining or smithing is not a requirement. It is, however, out of character (and I use that in it's true sense rather than in terms of IC/OOC) for the dwarves in this setting. There's also the thought that going away from these norms will leave you a lot less dwarven traits left to characterise yourself with, but that's just my opinion.
The game owners have a particular view on how they feel dwarves should be played and this is reflected in the preceding posts. Having certain expectations of how dwarves behave and act is what prevents the 'short human' syndrome. No-one has indicated that someone roleplaying outside those norms should delete or be punished though
If you roleplay unusual traits and accept the IC consequences - such as being looked at askance by your peers and perhaps being slightly looked down upon too - then you are unlikely to be chastised OOCly.
The problem comes when characters roleplay not worrying about magic because it means they can be spelled up by their arcane friends. Or they roleplay having no fear of riding solely because it allows them to move around more quickly. Or they a lack of fear of boats or swimming because otherwise they can't get to those quests out on the Moonshaes or a trainer in the Moonsea. That is where any notion of 'twinking' comes in.
My very first character on FK was a dwarf and I still play that one periodically. He is no less a dwarf than Birgit - Moradin, clan and Hall are all that matter to him - but in terms of ideology he is poles apart from her. She is an arch-conservative, bound by traditions where he is driven to use whatever means he sees fit to safeguard his people.
Why is that relevant?
Well, because of the two... Birgit is the one to have been taken to task by Feindra for being scandalous and undwarflike.
With consistent well-thought out roleplay it is not impossible to have a dwarf behave unlike the norm. Though I would suggest you pick only one trait to go native with. (A riding, swimming, magic using dwarf is a gnome after all.
) Just don't take offence if a player or NPC reacts to your roleplay because their character is more conservative - that is your IC consequence.
To play a dwarf that rides swims or flies is not prohibited. To play a dwarf that likes mining or smithing is not a requirement. It is, however, out of character (and I use that in it's true sense rather than in terms of IC/OOC) for the dwarves in this setting. There's also the thought that going away from these norms will leave you a lot less dwarven traits left to characterise yourself with, but that's just my opinion.
The game owners have a particular view on how they feel dwarves should be played and this is reflected in the preceding posts. Having certain expectations of how dwarves behave and act is what prevents the 'short human' syndrome. No-one has indicated that someone roleplaying outside those norms should delete or be punished though
If you roleplay unusual traits and accept the IC consequences - such as being looked at askance by your peers and perhaps being slightly looked down upon too - then you are unlikely to be chastised OOCly.
The problem comes when characters roleplay not worrying about magic because it means they can be spelled up by their arcane friends. Or they roleplay having no fear of riding solely because it allows them to move around more quickly. Or they a lack of fear of boats or swimming because otherwise they can't get to those quests out on the Moonshaes or a trainer in the Moonsea. That is where any notion of 'twinking' comes in.
My very first character on FK was a dwarf and I still play that one periodically. He is no less a dwarf than Birgit - Moradin, clan and Hall are all that matter to him - but in terms of ideology he is poles apart from her. She is an arch-conservative, bound by traditions where he is driven to use whatever means he sees fit to safeguard his people.
Why is that relevant?
Well, because of the two... Birgit is the one to have been taken to task by Feindra for being scandalous and undwarflike. With consistent well-thought out roleplay it is not impossible to have a dwarf behave unlike the norm. Though I would suggest you pick only one trait to go native with. (A riding, swimming, magic using dwarf is a gnome after all.
) Just don't take offence if a player or NPC reacts to your roleplay because their character is more conservative - that is your IC consequence.
I actually have two dwarves, one that wont swim, wont touch boats, but that will, when it's truely necessary, ride, but most of the time he doesn't, he finds it distateful to tavel on something other then his own two feet.
Now, my other dwarf wont ride, wont step foot on a boat, and won't swim, and neither of these dwarves particularly trust wizardly magics. The second one, however, keeps some potions in his spellpouch. Now, he's not likely to ever use them, because his personality is he'll only use them if he really has no other choice. And since he'd rather die then use them, the only thing that might get him to use them is hearing, say, that Mithril Hall is in danger of a drow attacks
Absolutely necessary, to him, is defined as being able to protect his homeland. Nothing short of this will make him use wizard potions. But, he'll collect the potions for just such a possibility. All of this was worked out in character, but I just thought I'd state my part here. Purely conservative dwarves are alright, but to me it's funner to play one that's a bit different, one little detail that isn't normal, that most people don't even realize. That is just my opinion though.
Now, my other dwarf wont ride, wont step foot on a boat, and won't swim, and neither of these dwarves particularly trust wizardly magics. The second one, however, keeps some potions in his spellpouch. Now, he's not likely to ever use them, because his personality is he'll only use them if he really has no other choice. And since he'd rather die then use them, the only thing that might get him to use them is hearing, say, that Mithril Hall is in danger of a drow attacks
Absolutely necessary, to him, is defined as being able to protect his homeland. Nothing short of this will make him use wizard potions. But, he'll collect the potions for just such a possibility. All of this was worked out in character, but I just thought I'd state my part here. Purely conservative dwarves are alright, but to me it's funner to play one that's a bit different, one little detail that isn't normal, that most people don't even realize. That is just my opinion though.
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Dalvyn
- Sword Grand Master
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Dwarves mounting horses (or ponies or warboars or four-legged magically animated mugs of beer) when necessary is fine, in my opinion. As long as mounting does not become so common that it's an unremarkable event in the roleplay.
Dwarves asking wizards to spell them up or using arcane magic can be fine, in my opinion. As long as this does not become so common that it's an unremarkable event in the roleplay.
Dwarves are still dwarves. They are not simply small-statured, mostly bearded, humans. Humans are very versatile. They don't have any kind of racial prejudices or characteristics. Most of the other races do though, and they should not be ignored. They might be toned down by a character's particular roleplay, but those specificities should not completely wiped out of the character's behaviour.
Two concrete examples ...
A dwarf mounting a pony to journey with a horse-mounted party is fine. Use this as an opportunity to make him grumble and whatnot (see the Gimli reference posted by Sharni above). A dwarf who always travel on a mount, who does that so often that it becomes common and unremarkable, misses on an opportunity to distinguish himself as a dwarf (and not just a small-sized human).
A dwarf using a gate created by a wizard to reach a far-away place quickly because someone needs help there, is fine. A dwarf who makes a habit out of asking "Hey, El, make me fly" each time he wants to journey to Zazesspur or stock up on plenty of arcane potions, is NOT fine though. That's a typical small bearded human (and a twink in my opinion, because he wants to do things fast, more efficiently, no matter whether efficiency comes at the cost of ICness or roleplay consistency).
As in most things, it's a matter of nuance. Making your dwarf special because he has less than a problem than most dwarves with magic, or boats, or mounting, or flying, or elves, is fine. Completely ignoring the dwarven racial specificities because they might come in the way of efficiency in (skill-)leveling up, is not fine though.
Dwarves asking wizards to spell them up or using arcane magic can be fine, in my opinion. As long as this does not become so common that it's an unremarkable event in the roleplay.
Dwarves are still dwarves. They are not simply small-statured, mostly bearded, humans. Humans are very versatile. They don't have any kind of racial prejudices or characteristics. Most of the other races do though, and they should not be ignored. They might be toned down by a character's particular roleplay, but those specificities should not completely wiped out of the character's behaviour.
Two concrete examples ...
A dwarf mounting a pony to journey with a horse-mounted party is fine. Use this as an opportunity to make him grumble and whatnot (see the Gimli reference posted by Sharni above). A dwarf who always travel on a mount, who does that so often that it becomes common and unremarkable, misses on an opportunity to distinguish himself as a dwarf (and not just a small-sized human).
A dwarf using a gate created by a wizard to reach a far-away place quickly because someone needs help there, is fine. A dwarf who makes a habit out of asking "Hey, El, make me fly" each time he wants to journey to Zazesspur or stock up on plenty of arcane potions, is NOT fine though. That's a typical small bearded human (and a twink in my opinion, because he wants to do things fast, more efficiently, no matter whether efficiency comes at the cost of ICness or roleplay consistency).
As in most things, it's a matter of nuance. Making your dwarf special because he has less than a problem than most dwarves with magic, or boats, or mounting, or flying, or elves, is fine. Completely ignoring the dwarven racial specificities because they might come in the way of efficiency in (skill-)leveling up, is not fine though.
As a side note, unless I'm mistaken, detuning is not possible anymore.Belose wrote:now he's gotten used to mindspeaking to avoid talking, people are de-tuniing, but he'll live with that...
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Kilak
- Sword Apprentice
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I haven't played recently, but I do know that my dwarf did not have that much of a problem with mages. That played out because the characters he was around were mages so he was used to seeing the magics they performed. Did I go around using potions, no. But if I was in a party and the wizard said it was a good potion, would I use it? Possibly.
I can understand why the Admins want to keep dwarves from becoming small bearded humans, but I don't want to see it to the extreme that it limits some of the creativity of the players. Like I said before, I probably would have been looked down upon for some of the things I did with my dwarf, Kilak Axebattler, but I made sure that I always had a IC reason and I made sure I never would have been confused for a short Human.
I can understand why the Admins want to keep dwarves from becoming small bearded humans, but I don't want to see it to the extreme that it limits some of the creativity of the players. Like I said before, I probably would have been looked down upon for some of the things I did with my dwarf, Kilak Axebattler, but I made sure that I always had a IC reason and I made sure I never would have been confused for a short Human.
- Kilak Axebattler, son o' Baelin o' Clan Axebattler
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- Vaelyn, Wizard in Training
- Melaku, Warrior from Zakhara
- Vaelyn, Wizard in Training