Prestige Classes

[Dalvyn]

ICly it would be kind of hard to explain how you could forget how to grip your weapon anyway.

It could be some kind of oath. For example, by becoming True Warrior of Tempus, you forsake the use of all ranged weapons. It's fine if you used some before you became a True Warrior; it's fine if you trained skills like bows. But when you become a True Warrior, you swear not to use them again.

Now, since it's not possible to make sure that you won't use them anymore, the skill could simply be set back down to 0. Note that it would not prevent you from training it back up afterwards unfortunately, but if you do that and go against your oath, expect to be thrown out of the prestige class and so on.

I don't think that requiring that someone has not trained a skill is a valid requirement for a prestige class, for two reasons. First, if character A can do all the things that character B can do (that is, if A knows all the skills that B knows), if B is allowed to join a prestige class, then so should A be. In other words, if you meet the requirements and even more than the requirements, you should still be a valid candidate (only positive requirements). Second, this would just mean that the character has not trained that skill when he joins the prestige class; he could still train it afterwards. Therefore, just setting the skill level down to 0 is most likely a much better solution.

[Kregor]

Now, since it's not possible to make sure that you won't use them anymore, the skill could simply be set back down to 0. Note that it would not prevent you from training it back up afterwards unfortunately, but if you do that and go against your oath, expect to be thrown out of the prestige class and so on.

That is true it can be set back down in a prog. An oath would be an IC way to say don't use it, even though you have it, though. I made my response here based on the response to my question on the topic in the code team, probably hasty on my part

[Lorion]

Especially with the grip skill you cannot codewise refuse to use it though, as it is an automatic skill. Hence I would say setting those skills/feats back to untrained is an option that at least partly should be done.

Another question though. If a PrC requires a feat not trained that had been trained deliberately(say, for example, spirited charge), and it will NOT be made so that those characters are excluded from this prestige class, and this feat will be untrained upon joining the prestige class, will you then gain a spare feat point again, or will this feat point be lost?

[Kregor]

I personally see few places where a feat would be disallowed on a PrC, short of something like armour proficiency in classes that require a limitation on a certain weight of armour. As Dalvyn said, you have the requisites *plus* other talents. Something like spirited charge would be dependent on a mount, and if say, your class forbids fighting on horseback, the feat never comes into play from then on anyway. If you have archery feats and pick a class that forbids using missile weapons, there again, the feats never come into play if the skill is gone and no longer used.

As far as getting back feat points, I don't see a lot of logic, personally, in trading feat points back. Look at it this way:

First, you have gotten worth back from investment in your feats during your original career. If you were a warrior who trained improved bash, and later join a prestige class that forbids shield usage, that feat was not purchased for nothing, you got an investment out of it when you used it on your previous path. To take feats away and give you a feat points back essentially gives you all the past benefit of the feat for free.

Secondly, you look at the abilities you get from most prestige classes, most of these classes get two, three, four, or more feats, just from the sake of progressing up in levels. Add to this the glory you'll be getting while you RP this new class up its levels. You have the potential to net several new feats during your char's new career.

I don't think anyone is going to have to be worried about being short changed for picking up a prestige class. You will be stepping into a new walk of life, with new talents, possibly new skills not available to your base class, and perhaps even a few new feats that only prestige classes can access (Tyr be willing ) In fact, the biggest issue on the plate is having *too* much power with the prestige classes. Not too little.