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Prince of Lies
The Crucible

Books for ANY of the gods, really, considering thats what they're all about.
There's a really sweet part in them involving Tempus, and just how far he can be pushed.

Might I suggest the series of the trial of cyric the mad that is a good series with many gods in them

A small discussion earlier brought of some interesting questions.
I just went back and read the whole section devoted to Tempus in Faiths and Pantheons. And it says nothing about not using ranged weapons, nor about any other then the clergy wearing face guards...

So are we Tempurians rping our characters wrong? Believe that it is dishonourable to use ranged weapons when it does not say that Tempus dislikes them? Just a few questions that were brought up. Any ideas?

If this information is in another book please let me know.

I've never read anything about it. I've always wondered where that rule came from, actually.


Jayson

Faiths and Pantheons :
Tempus feats include Mounted Archery. precise shot. rapid shot.....

Seems to me like he uses ranged weapons....I do not see why we cannot

Just looked over Faiths and Pantheons and I cannot find anything about not using ranged weapons. It makes sense for them to use them, as teams of archers are ussually an important part of any army.

Just to add a second opinion, it does say that Priests of Tempus are careful not to cover their face, as such close emulation to the Lord of Battle is considered an affront to the faith.

It says nothing about non-priests wearing full helms though.

Can non-priest Tempurian's wear visors or full helms as well? It would seem like he [Tempus] would allow it as it would protect the face in combat.

As I see from reading the faith's and pantheons books, It was honorble for a Tempurian not to wear a face guard so the enemy could see the face of the one that was going to do battle with them, Since it has been a while since I read the book, I cannot be completely sure if non should wear visors or just the truely dedicated as Mystra stated.

As for the visors from third edition Faiths and Pantheons:

"When not in battered armor, clerics of Tempus often wear helms or steel skullcaps, though they are careful to never cover their faces, for such close emulation of Tempus is thought to be an affront to the Lord of Battles."

As for the missile weapons I believe there was something mentioned in second edition which is far more in depth about the various human gods in Forgotten Realms, I currently do not have access to my sourcebook.

The quote I posted in the other the other thread is actually from the 2nd edition book, and nothing is said about ranged weapons not being honourable.

As I read it, what Tempus despises is what could be called sneaky tricks, like capturing a tribe's women then backmailing the males into surrendering if they want the women to be spared, or killing the cattle to make the siege of a castle easier, or poisoning your enemies to make them weaker and unable to fight.

There's one thing quite important to remember though: the various worshipers and churches might have different opinions on how best to worship Tempus. Some might say that ranged weapons are not honourable and frown upon those who use them. That could create minor schisms in the church, philosophical debates, and so on. There is not only one way to worship a FR god.

Dalvyn wrote:There is not only one way to worship a FR god.

Very true... especially in a chaotic faith, like Tempus'. There are schisms in the dogma of many of the faiths in Faerun, kind of like real life.

Even the church of Ilmater as lawful good as it is, still has differences in dogma, in the Monastery of the yellow Rose, the monks are Traditionalists, rather than Orthodox, and do not believe in revering the martyred saints of Ilmater. There is also struggle within the Church of Tymora, where the Church in Arabel wishes to clamp down on the autonomy of the Tymoran churches with a central hierarchy... in Arabel, of course.

I was curious would lifting your visor before the fight and lowering it when the fight starts be considered dishonourable?

An added note about ranged weapons... In the Tombs of Tempus in Waterdeep, there's an area of the tombs dedicated to Tempus's archers.

The whole bit about Temurians not being too keen on ranged weapons comes from the 'Forgotten Realms Adventures' book. Under the section about Tempus it states:
"While recognizing the need for bows, slings, and even firearms and bombards on the battlefield, the specialty followers of Tempus take a dim view of missile weapons. In a perfect world, no one would use such cowardly items, but the world is imperfect. Therefore, no missile weapons can be taken a a chosen weapon unless it can also be used as a melee weapon (like a spear.)"

Specialty priests could chose a particular weapon and have certain bonuses with it. They could not pick a bow or sling as per above, but there is nothing stating that they could not use a ranged weapon. They would just not be comfortable using one. And the restriction was for specialty followers (i.e. priests) and not general followers.

The book is 2nd edition, so I would think that it no longer applies, unless there is a 3rd edition of it out there. In any case, if your PC has been RPing that ranged weapons are bad, they should only change their minds thru RP. I don't think it is cool to one day say 'bows are cowardly' and then the next say 'I've almost mastered the bow.' just becasue the general RP policy for the faith has been updated. As long as any changes are handled thru RP, there should be no real problems.

With the first post about how some see fleeing ic as something against Tempus' dogma.

While Tempus himself follows his code perfectly (in general the only thing a god can't do is act against his immutable nature) you aren't Tempus. In my opinion, anyone who plays a Tempus follower (priest or champion) should roleplay losing that favor from fleeing..and I'd consider it poor roleplaying if your mortal character always chose to stare death in the face and die biting the bullet.

Just like real life gods don't expect their worshippers to be as perfect (perfect being indicated with their views) as them, I think it can be assumed the same applies for FR gods. While Tempus may never /ever/ retreat from combat, he's powerful enough so that he may go thousands of mortal years without every feeling the fear a mortal character feels by hearing the simple marching feet of orcs.

So while Tempus may be dissappointed in those who flee - it's not nearly as bad, as say, ambushing a group of toddlers hugging puppy dogs. All gods realize the flaws of mortals, and deep down, he has to see the value in having followers at all. Because if they all lived 100% by his code, he'd only have a handful of very /very/ accomplished worshippers.

No one is expected to be as perfect as a god, only to strive to be. The followers of Tempus, in many senses, are an incredibly devout group for staying and fighting instead of fleeing just one time. Who is more devout, the person who dies once in his gods name - or the person who dedicates an entire life to his message?

Tempus is very simple, edict wise. But what he asks is so far out of mortal nature, that just doing so a few times is extraordinary. That's the hard part to rp correctly.

I guess what I'm saying is. It's more difficult to be a little devout (low favour because of retreating) to Tempus than it is to be very devout to other gods. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Just wearing the favor of Tempus in general, should imply that given the circumstance you are willing to die in battle as a matter of pride. Which is a frightening proposition to any non adventurers...and a good portion of intrepid ones.