Losing items in a pkill

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Larethiel
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Post by Larethiel » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:21 pm

To give my opinion :)

If you enter a pk-situation you should be expected to be aware of the risk to 1) die and 2) get a thing taken away, no matter which one. You can only hope that your favorite/ most valuable/grandes/nicest/whatever thing is taken.

Good roleplay can make a pk a thrilling and exciting situation, people making one smote and blast you into your nirvana after that, not.

For the thing taken away, there should always be an opportunity to rp it back and some ooc-discussion about it. I think it's not fair to have no ooc-chat or anything about the pk and/or opportunities to get back your things.

To say "I want this and that for your item" might be okay if it's reasonable but if a player runs around, collects everything he can, offers it and all he/she gets as reply every time he/she offers something is "Well, honestly this and that doesn't interest me", it's rather frustrating, demotivating and causes quite a lot of displeasure.

Ugh, I hate english :P bad language
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Gwain
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Post by Gwain » Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:38 pm

If I could change anything, it would have to be symbol theft. I do not think a symbol should be stolen on the event of death during a pk, unless said thief accepts that he will face the wrath of the deity and the combined faith. Though it is very easy in certain situations to gain a new symbol. It might be a good idea to apply to a symbol the same properties of relics, that when one not of the faith attempts to hold them, they crumble, though I might only be focusing on the old situation, it never use to be an issue as symbols could not be removed, now that they can it is possible to steal them.

And, I apologise for the naked Gwain comments, I meant of course that without items my pc is still Gwain, he is simply Gwain without items of clothing that some might characterise as his. I did not mean to be crude or overtly graphic. My apologies once again.
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Pkill and Newbies

Post by Raona » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:11 am

I'm a relative newbie, and still remember my first potential Pkill situation. (I've never actually fought a PK, and frankly, I'd prefer to keep it that way, unless something comes up in RP that really justifies it.)

Raona was fighting orcs in the Snowflake mountains when a really BIG orc came along and started bullying her around (in impressive RP manner, I should add. Positively orcish!). He was understandably mad at her having offed a member of his tribe, who he said he was training for re-conquest of the realms. I think in the end he offered to let her go if Raona would eat some dwarf jerky, but she wasn't having any of it. Her attempts to out-talk the orc didn't work...she was talking over his head. There was an OOC chat about PKill, in which the orc patiently explained to Raona how it should work. Then there was much smoting of drawing back, looking behind ones shoulder, getting out a huge club, whistling for a horse, and then, finally, the orc took a swipe at Raona...which nearly crushed the life out of her. (30% health) Let me say that had Raona died from that single swipe (and that was possible, both IC and code-wise, had an unlikely miss in the multiple attacks been a hit) I'd have been pretty frustrated OOC. Really OOC frustrated if an obviously superior character had taken any of the little she had. Raona was clearly trying to arrange a way to run, and took up a defensive posture with her smotes. I did feel I had to give the orc a shot at her, but when it was her "turn," she ran like a bunnny. The orc gave chase, but let her escape. Raona is still haunted by that encounter, to this day, and hadn't returned to that place until just this week, and that was with a group on a mining expedition.

So, to my mind: The orc played things admirably, IC and OOC. It was a credible drubbing, and cowed Raona just as her death would have. It wasn't "unfair" for a high-level character to stumble upon a much lower-level character, and act orcishly. It wasn't unfair for Raona to run. (She wasn't a squire then, just a kid. Today...not sure what she'd do.) I'm glad, ICly and OOCly, that Raona got away. She doesn't plan to go hunting for the orc when she grows up, and get revenge. I've run into that orc again, in fact, and each time look forward to more great RP...and um, yuck, Dwarf jerky!

Bottom line: Whatever rules we may put in place, good players will make the game work under them, and poor players will work around them. This is not to say that the rules should not be made to favor good players as much as possible. I think poor players often enter into PKills hoping for, or even scheming to get, particular items. But good players might enter into PKill for the same reason: as when various evils were chasing after Maybel trying to obtain a rather precious mace, as part of a larger RP. They didn't care about Maybel, they wanted that mace, and to stymie what it might accomplish. I see two ways to deal with this, but it rolls back to my original point. If there were a no-item-take policy in place, and a good player like Maybel were killed by others trying to take that mace, she would then give it to them; to satisfy the RP.

To my mind, the real question is whether FK is better letting all play, even those who have time and again demonstrated poor RP and no hope of getting better, or whether more proactive banning of those who just don't "get it" would be a net positive. I used to be firmly in favor of the former, but the longer I am around (and run into more truly poor, boorish, and hopeless, it would seem) players, the more I see the appeal of the latter. But it does seem awfully snotty, in a way.

Golly...how did I end up here? Well, that's what I think, I guess. :shock:
Maybe it belongs in a whole new thread. To the original question, I don't see changing this rule as really fixing anything. Poor players will start holding corpses hostage or come up with some other way to twist things to their idea of how things should go. Perhaps it is good that most of them currently seem sated with "just" one item.
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Post by Ceara » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:49 am

I heavily disagree with banning people because they don't understand or aren't very good at rp.
It can be too easily abused and personally in the past, years ago I had been accused by a player of not playing my character correctly. That player was entirely wrong, I was playing her perfectly, he just didn't know what was going on behind the scenes. Imms cannot be here and watching us all the time. I would hate to see someone banned because of an assumption like that player made.
Some people are new to rp, some just don't know about the race or whatever and in my experience are often willing to learn about it in order to rp better, when given the chance.
Banning should be reserved for consistent rule breaking after warnings etc, and for serious matters.
Perhaps those who demonstrate poor rp should be helped in their rp by imms with suggestions on how to improve.
When I first came to FK, I didn't know anything about FR, I didn't know how to smote or even say.
Calandria took the time to pull me aside and help me with the commands and remind me when I forgot some of them.
Sharni took the time to suggest reading material.
Though I do agree with Gwain that holy symbols should not be taken.
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Post by Lathander » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:30 pm

1. Gwain, I was speaking tongue-in-cheek about the naked Gwain thing. I wasn't chastising you.

2. Let's get the discussion back on the issue of items and pkills. Bannings are something else entirely.
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Post by Mariela » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:44 pm

You have to admit, it would be kinda novel for the faith symbols to "Burn" someone else of a different faith for taking it.

Tee hee.

The power of the *insert deity here* compels you!

The only problem with making the symbols untakeable upon death is that... uh.. does that mean you can't remove it once it's on? I mean, I can think of situations where you might want to remove it completely and stash it somewehre before you go off and do something stupid. (Going into enemy territory for something strikes me as a good plan. Or "reconassiance" type missions.)

Anyways, if the holy symbol is unstealable, it would be a bit of a thorn in people's sides who have to steal such things to get in their faith. I mean, it's all well and good until someone loses an eye.

Or something.
Forgive me. Long day at work and I'm loopy. :)
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Post by Ceara » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:58 pm

I don't think so, in some smaug based code bases there is an object flag called loyal, which means it cannot be taken from the person on death or by theft.
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