Forgotten Kingdoms Forums

My suggestion is to defeat Rynn and take his power as your own.

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

Funny how these things works. Some white titles were removed because of player request. It was felt that it showed favoritism to have them.

Well to be fair, I never wanted it to happen in the first place.

when hopefuls are looking having white titles are VERY helpful. It lets them know that a faith manager Is on and that it IS the faith manager they want. There are many *coughs* evil gods that are more secret and for the sake of ease for hopefuls the FM has to be "known" to follow said god. Demarch and Nightseer are two such positions (Yzelle pipe up already I know you're there) .... but .... one can easily look at who, take note of which faith managers are on, take note if they have any alts that need to see said faith manager and know in an instant if they should switch and hunt out the PC or not.

Why not just set your regular title?

Kelemvor wrote:The white titles are 2nd edition specialist priest titles, so they would not be appropriate for non-priests.

Yes, they wouldn't be, but wouldn't it be possible to have a different set of titles, since there once were other/guild hero ones? The main problem with this, though, would be as mentioned below - the lack of nonpriest canon titles.

Lathander wrote:Why not just set your regular title?

I think the main issue with this is that there is no FR equivalent for faith mangers that aren't high priests, so there are no titles that would be "common knowledge" or known across the board to people coming to the mud with FR or D&D knowledge (unless you just plop, say, FM of ___ into the title). Thus, nonpriest FMs are much less "visible".

Edit:

Lathander wrote:Funny how these things works. Some white titles were removed because of player request. It was felt that it showed favoritism to have them.

Wouldn't removing only "some" white titles cause even more accusations of favoritism (negative against those who lost the titles/positive for the few who kept them?). Just imo, I think there should be either all or none across particular ranks/FMs/heroes/etc.

I never knew that people viewed "white titles" as favoritism. Back when those dissenters were around (me probably being one of them, I can't remember that far back), I thought that the problem was with some people having more than one. But anyway. If people understand what the white title means, then I don't see why there shouldn't be more of them. I think it's proper reward for all the hard work someone has done on a character - not just twinking them out, nor just being super-well-roleplayed, but a good mix of both - worth it. But moreso, it lets people know who those people are so they can seek help with certain things. If you need well-RP'd help with fleshing out a character, you seek the hero of that guild or the faith manager. If you need a skill that might not be readily available, you seek out someone who can teach it to you - and a person who is both skilled at RPing and highly skilled in their guild would be able to do that. It seems like it just kind've helps, in my opinion.

Still think generic, easy to identify, white titles are best... especially for new folks looking for someone of note. Leave the specialized priest names out of it, or merely encourage folks to put them in with the old 'title' command. The old whites titles were great, but with quite a few FMs not priests these days we need to update. Nothing wrong with a simple -FM- or faith manager white name, especially when its dealing with a partly OOC matter such as faithing.

In terms of the titles being inappropriate for non priest leaders of the church...

BAH! I say to you.

Until not too terribly long ago, I didn't realize that to be a FM for the longest time you had to be a priest. And now that we have pleanty of FM's that are NOT priests, why not give them the white flashy title that they deserve for answering questions from faithful every five minutes?

I know at least in my case, I generally call the FM's regardles if they are a priest or not by the proper name that the head o the faith is known for. Unless they have given me a different term to call them. The Deathlord is always the Deathlord.... the Feywarden is always the Feywarden.. and so forth.

I really don't think it would be so horrible to give all the FM's a "title" that is permanate to help the newbies out. I know those are the people I generally try to stalk when I am looking for the head of the faith. It blew me away the first time I went looking for a head of the church of Oghman and found out that the head of the church was Lerytha and Mira. And that's because it's not like there is a glowing sign over their heads saying, "In charge here..." To this day, i have a hard time remembering Mira.. and it's not because she's not a damn good Oghman. It's cause she's not "idiot marked" for idiots like me.

favortism? Hell no. If we are talking favoritism let's talk about something just as irrational like why there are only IM's for like five gods and Selune is not one of them! *grins* I'm kidding. But seriously, It's not favoritism to give them the respect that is due for someone that spends a great deal of their time dealing with people learn abou the faith or getting quests together. I don't think there's an FM out there that hasn't had to go through a bit of a hair pulling tension at times. Give them their titles!

I never commented in the debates about white titles a while back. Now however, I'd just say I don't think faith managers need white titles. They are nice for priests, and it gives priest faith-managers an extra something. After all, priest faith-managers are in a sense, the superior faith-manager. Mira and Lerytha share the Oghman running, but if ever a priest gets raised to faith-manager (that is, if we ever have anyone play an Oghman priest who dedicates time) I know that IC most faith authority will in a sense be passed on to that priest. And in a sense, that's shown by the white title.

I actually like sometimes having to tell people "no, actually, I'm one of the people that tend to Oghma's flock" because sometimes they don't realise. It adds to a bit of roleplay, and the like.

Imagine it like this: everyone knows who the Pope of the Catholic Church is. Everyone if they met him would tell he is the uber-leader of that religion. In a sense, in the real world's "who list", he has a big white title saying "Popey". But what about other Cardinals of the Catholic Church? Well, we don't really know who they are. And we only find out when we look a bit further.

How does that correspond to FMs in FK? Well, we use the helpfiles.

All faith managers should be sending their backgrounds to Kregor so the helpfiles can be updated. Then, when a person wants to learn about the faith and types "help Oghma" for example, they see that Mira and Lerytha are the faith managers. That shows they need to look a bit further IC to see who tends the faith. For some faith like Waukeen's, where Vibius has a flashing white sign saying "Holycoin", IC it is obvious.

So I'm actually not that worried about having a big white title. For priests, its good. It differentiates between the "holy of high-holies" that is a priest FM, and the "just plain old high-holy" that is a non-priest FM.

(PS: faith managers, get your biographies written up and sent in! On days when people are not logged in I want something interesting to read!)

Please don't misunderstand me. If the sentiment is now that such titles are NOT favoritism, I have no problem with that. I am just observing (and truly laughing) at the irony.

Wouldn't removing only "some" white titles cause even more accusations of favoritism (negative against those who lost the titles/positive for the few who kept them?). Just imo, I think there should be either all or none across particular ranks/FMs/heroes/etc

No, not really. I'm one of the ones that has always believed there never was favoritism, only a perception of it somehow by a group of players. When the titles were removed from some positions, not a single player holding those positions complained. I thought that was very mature and helped alleviate some of the favoritism talk.

I think the easiest solution, given that those who code are very busy doing other coding projects would be to self title:

Blagdiblop the baby badger (FM Garl)

or, if you want to keep the words:

Cranky the Ubermoose (Feywarden)

All that being said I have two points. I'm not opposed to adding back the white titles, but would defer to the coders as to the effort. Second, though it is largely my own fault, let's not derail this into a discussion on favoritism. Things have been going too well lately to be using the "F" word.

Recipe for a good faith manager/ orange and peach pie or tart/ What I apply when choosing a potential faith manager.

Bear in mind that results vary, no pie is alike unless you are a champion chef.

• - Carefully prepare the victim/ willing participant by making sure there is constant freshness and overall willingness to be in charge of said faith
  
  - Observe faithful for no less than a month or more depending on services and actions rendered.
  
  - Arrange small tasks and duties for individual to observe willingness and coherency in actions and fellow members.
  
  - Butter lightly applying thyme and a small measure of lard or margarine depending on tastes.
  
  - Make sure that role play aspects balance out with leveling potential, more role play experience is better than more exp leveling experience. Lightly salt and cut into quarters.
  
  - Add a dash of ooc trust that player behind character will not abuse system or bugs and will represent the game as a valued member. Stir until filling is a mash, making sure to fluff out the lumps
  
  - Work closely with faith manager/ listen to their concerns at first as they learn to handle their duties. Gently flake pie crust following the recipe 'How to make a delicious pie crust/ Ranger warden'
  
  - Cook on high in conventional oven for three hours at 300, allow faith manager to seek and understand the potential of their own followers and trust in their decisions based on the training and overall faith or rp.
  
  - Allow pie to vent to avoid settling, cut a small slit at crown. Allow faith managers to be mortals but not too mortal, they are still mouth pieces of the gods.
  
  - Cool and serve. Remember to refrigerate leftovers in a cool place beneath a moist cloth. Remember to to keep faith managers cool and full of trust depending on the overall alignment and ethos expressed by the deity in question which will vary.
  
  - Pie serves ten people / ten tarts and faith manager serves faithful of one faith.

As a very neutral party in this matter (I have no FM or HP characters), I really suggest the title for a number of reasons:

1: Newbie-friendly. Why make the learning curve more difficult than necessary. A newbie already has to wade through tons of help files to even begin to learn the game - especially if they have no background in a similar MUD (or never played a MUD, for that matter).

2: Fair play. People of 'secret' positions are DUE to have white titles. It's a PITA to try to find out IC who the Leader of the Maskite church is IC. It SHOULD be that way, but it shouldn't leave you grumbling OOC. With a title, it could be far easier.. Roleplay bribing a beggar (or threatening to beat them to invalid status).. Seeing the title OOC and roleplaying the beggar gave him/her up. Seek the person out by name. Of course, I would never suggest such said roleplay without speaking OOC to the player and verifying they were alright with it - some average Joe may not even know them by their real character name.

3: Less labor. No offense, I'd not know who to talk to about many Gods/Goddesses without talking to people OOC and the like. For those who aren't HP and their church LACKS a HP, it's very difficult to find the person to RP with to be brought into the Church. Submitting an application for the information is time consuming. It also causes the Imms to take more time out of their schedules and other duties towards improving the MUD if they have to answer many emails about 'Who to contact regarding this faith.' With the 'title' visible, you can PM them on the forums or send them an otell to set up said RP. This ALSO _prevents_ the idea of favoritism as those who "aren't in the know" are presented a level playing field.


Honestly, I never once felt the actual titles themselves are an indication of favoritism. In the past, I did very much feel that a HP is indicative towards favorism. It may still exist in the recesses of my mind, but I do my best to ignore the idea. I think it's best that everyone attempt the same and just try to concentrate on enjoying the game.

If your character has existed for years, there is a necessity for a faith manager available, and you feel you do a good job of trying to teach the fledgling faith brothers/sisters...but think that due to the lack of attendence of the faith manager, the faith has become stagnant... Submit an application.

Lathander wrote:Second, though it is largely my own fault, let's not derail this into a discussion on favoritism. Things have been going too well lately to be using the "F" word.

I think we have wandered just about as far as we can go from my original topic. But, for me at least, most of my questions were answered. It seems the 'white title' topic needed to be discussed, judging by all the posts. I don't mind derails that lead to something constructive.

I'll retouch on a prior question for clarification though. Outside of hunting down folks, some who dont log in for extended periods at a time, is sending an application email the only way to find out who has faithing abilities for certain faiths? Was thinking about this after reading a bit in this topic and had an idea regarding faithing and the faith list command. Perhaps we can set it up so anyone above a certain 'rank' in the faith list can faith members, inner circle and higher or something. This provides an easy to identify list of empowered players, that is maintained by the FMs and imms involved with said faith that doesn't require any coders's time. Wouldn't be hard to promote lower ranking members that already had faithing abilities to the rank either... Thoughts?

erhaps we can set it up so anyone above a certain 'rank' in the faith list can faith members, inner circle and higher or something

Actually, this is true already. In my understanding, inner circle members may give faith quests to hopefuls, but simply may not grant them a symbol. This must be done by the faith manager.

Pie serves ten people / ten tarts and faith manager serves faithful of one faith.

You make me hungry... For FMs! *eats Lerytha*

Jaenoic wrote:You make me hungry... For FMs! *eats Lerytha*

PG-13 plz.

Jaenoic wrote:

erhaps we can set it up so anyone above a certain 'rank' in the faith list can faith members, inner circle and higher or something

Actually, this is true already. In my understanding, inner circle members may give faith quests to hopefuls, but simply may not grant them a symbol. This must be done by the faith manager.

With the introduction of 'holy symbol' as a lvl 9 priest spell, the idea is even easier to flesh out. Players wouldn't be in the inner circle rank unless they have proven themselves at their faith, unless some FM was promote happy.

If you are able to give faith quest without being the FM, that is up to the FM from what I have always understood.

Just because you are Inner Circle doesn't mean that you get to go rampant around doing things. *shrugs* But then again, I'm involved in faiths that have fairly hands on FM's and I didn't think it was my place to start forking out quests without talking to them about each canidate I thought could use one. (Oh look at that.. RP... )


I really do think it is just EASIER to have the white titles. You then know if you can find someone. I HATE the idea of having to throw PM's, toss emails to the already over whelmed application team just to find ONE person who is online with me 24/7 and because I don't know they are the FM cause they are a rogue. You can still RP that you are less than a priest FM if you want. But the title would help even ME be less self conciouis about walking up to someone who is the acting FM and going, "Umm hi. I was sent to speak to you."

It's a comfort level when going into a new thing. The white title means that that person know what they are doing and arent' blowing smoke up their back end.


And Oghma, that is the most hysterical thing I have ever read.

help Oghma

Oghma (etc)

(1) Mira Mockingbird (2) Lerytha Holt, Scholar of Oghma

help Selune

(1) Lunette Sandail

help Mielikki

(1) Halia Gilraen (2) Rhytania

(and that is pretty much the same for every helpfile)

At the risk of sounding patronising... OOC ease of knowing who FMs are is served by the helpfiles. If you are a FM and you want people to find you, don't rely on a white title, ask the helpfile team to add you to the deity helpfile.

hmm well i'm quite new, to rp muds anyhoo, and find the white titles dam useful lol, only thing is i'm playing as a halfling looking to follow Yondalla, and after I'd laid down some rp for this I discovered through word of mouth Yondalla has no faith manager, and was told to use pray, as there seem to be no members of the faith around obviously either, but in all i agree everyone should have white titles (well FM's anyhoo) or at least {FM} at the end of their title.

I know this is a rather old post, but I just now found it, so forgive if I rehash some other opinions here.
Regarding the white titles for non-cleric faith managers, I think that seeking out members of faith X iccly is the best way, and not looking for just Bob the high muckety-muck because he has a fancy title. It also aids in rp and comes as a pleasant surprise when the applicant is given a quest from Bob, the devoted member of faith X. As for becoming a manager, are the faith managers the only members of the faith allowed to grant a quest? Or can a lower ranked member do so, such as an acolyte or initiate level member, be it a cleric or faithful follower?