New teaching system: policies

[Selveem]

Thanks Dalvyn. I appreciate it.

Well, even still, that's pretty high considering.

If you were an Orc Fighter applying for something like that, it's a pretty uphill battle.
To even be a decent fighter, you should have decent Str and Con. Dex is a definitely a plus.

After spending all those points you are limited in your customization elsewhere - especially when you start with a negative 2 in two of the three required stats.

True, you can buy stats with Glory but there are some races that can't access the bulk of areas anyhow to even attempt quests. Orcs are definitely fairly limited in where they _should_ go ICly. There are now a decent number of Evil quests, but good greatly outweighs evil quests/evil options in quests.

I would break it down for my Orc Fighter example, but I don't want to reveal too much without permission so I'll just PM it directly. Suffice it to say that you need to buy at least 4 additional stat points (bought with Glory) to make a 'decent FK' Fighter who is also a teacher.

I was just hoping that there were considerations for these type of characters.

[Caelnai]

I was just hoping that there were considerations for these type of characters.

And I hope consideration for those characters who forwent stat points in one area to gain these skills!

The charisma requirement makes a lot of sense to me, actually. I've seen enough bad teaching to recognize it as a singular talent. One of my favorite game changes has been the modification of charisma to be a useful stat.

[Nysan]

Hmm, Gilain is not pretty enough to teach smithing. Good to know. hehehe,

[Dalvyn]

Two remarks:

(a) You don't have to have a maxed out Strength to be a valid fighter. It is completely possible to take away 2 points from Strength to increase other stats in order to be a good teacher. The game (and D&D in general) is based on choices. I believe that it is not a good approach to start with the premise that you should be able to be good at everything.

(b) Charisma is more than just being beautiful. It's also your inner power, your ability to give out information in such a way that the student in front of you wants to listen to you, and your ability to convey information in such a way that the student in front of you will believe you and follow your directions.

[Selveem]

Really? Make an Orc fighter and compete against others without it.

No Orc wants to learn from someone who is weaker than them. It's in their culture and part of their RP.

And, max for an Orc is 20, not 18.

I was just trying to explain what it's asking and how much a character REALLY has to be built specifically for the teacher feats in order to get it. Quite obviously, there are no stat points to spare and they will be weakening themselves quite a bit compared to others just to be able to teach.

[Nysan]

It was a joke!

[Maybel]

maybe for orcs have the modification be str instead of cha?

[Selveem]

Orcs were an example. Dwarves are another. Tieflings aren't really affected as they get a bonus on Int to make up for the loss of Cha.

Just explaining the examples may be a bit too rigid.

Don't get me wrong; I'm doing it anyways on my Dwarf. But it sucks having to contend with 10 str (especially being small sized) and 10 dex to learn to teach.

[Saranya]

It seems to me that charisma is still being thought of as "beauty" when it isn't. It's harder for some races to bridge that gap to communicate effectively and teach well; their culture and racial characteristics are at odds to it. The rare races have trade-offs which make for interesting RP, but not every player may wish those sorts of challenge.

Additional stat points can be "purchased" with glory if one wishes that route. There may not much to "spare" at the early levels, but long-term characters can work towards these goals. That long-term playing and effort seems very appropriate to me for teacher.

[Selveem]

At the same time, remember that the stats required are actually pretty high. For instance, Einstein is considered 18 int, for instance. Not 20 or anything.

15 Charisma is actually very high.

To say that an Orc would require 15 Charisma, 15 Intelligence, and 14 Wisdom to be able to train his camp I would think might be a little excessive. Orcs are not Humans. It's a completely different culture. Same goes for Dwarves and every other race in the game.

[Lathlain]

The stats per race are more relevant to the student if anything. You could well make strength the orc teaching modifier, but what if that orc were to be teaching a human for example? Raw displays of brute force may work on orcish students, but won't convey so well to anyone else. Similarly well-structured arguments and lessons on magic by a human may not be so well received by a goblin for instance!

For simplicity's sake I think sticking to the proposed int/wis/cha requirements is the way forward, but I would advocate perhaps dropping the necessary stats by a point each.

[Nysan]

Or... create a feat that grants some modifier for characters born from places like orc camp and Mithril Hall. Along the lines of reducing teaching stat requirements by a point or so. *shrug*

[Selveem]

Scholar 2 already requires four feats.

So you expend yet another feat just to lower your stat requirement by one?

[Nysan]

Scholar 2 already requires four feats.

So you expend yet another feat just to lower your stat requirement by one?

Not much different than spending glory on stats, is it?

[Selveem]

Kinda what I'm getting at.. Expend glory for a feat that lowers the stat requirement seems rather.. useless.

Might as well get the stats and enjoy the benefits of them.

[Nysan]

Kinda what I'm getting at.. Expend glory for a feat that lowers the stat requirement seems rather.. useless.

Might as well get the stats and enjoy the benefits of them.

Depends on the reduction of the feat. If it say... lowered cha requirements by 2 and int/wis by 1, then it would be worth the effort.

[Lerytha]

Just a point of clarification, now that I'm teaching to a very widespread audience.

I am teaching pretty much anyone that asks, so long as it is IC to do so.
I am charging for the teaching (sometimes quite considerable prices)
I am even teaching the higher level spells (like astral walk).

With the first two points I am quite confident I am right to do so (at least ICly, and in many ways OOCly as cost is one way to enforce some form of balance).

With the third, and high-level spells, should I be teaching it to a lot of people? I am not sure if the teaching feat is given to spread the spells around fairly widely, or to limit it to just a few? I favour the "spread it round widely" view myself, but would like some opinion (and clarification from an imm).

Thank you!

[Nedylene]

Personally I am careful whom I teach the higher levels spells to. The more powerful the spell the more you have to do to learn it. Usually a small task or something and not just a handful of coins. I personally want to know they will be responsible with the spell itself and if they can prove responsibility I teach it to them.

BUT, I also do not charge. Teaching to this character isn't a money making thing and more an honor to those who have proven themselves and grown. My current problem is tieing down the ones who have done a task for a lesson *mutters something about them off questing everytime I am on recently*

I believe it is up to the teacher. Who the character feels comfortable teaching knowing that the spell/knowledge will not fall into bad hands. Remember that learning from scrolls is still a viable form of learning as well. As a druidess of Chauntea I am sure that the person I teach will not write a scroll and "hand it to the enemy" so to speak, but again... That is HER beliefs. I believe who you teach, what requirements you have to teach etc is up to the individual. There is only three of us right now and in a way we're paving the way.

So Gesine, Miriel and I piped up. How have YOU been teaching and choosing your students?

[Lerytha]

Just as a description of how I do my lessons. It does tend to be done in one session, which tends to last 45 mins - 1 hour 15, depending on questions, interaction. That's the time length, at least.

All my spell lessons start:

1) Theory (so, a brief history of how the spell was "discovered" - I tend to rely heavily on so-called Netherese philosophy and magical exploration, which is a nice get-out clause), including a brief comment on the Plane the spell might use, the ideas behind it, etc. Some spells, this takes longer than others. I actually try and get this to be the most in-depth part.

2) Component discussion - how the use of the components in a particular spell actually match in with the outlined theory, which, I admit, tends to be very metaphorical and sometimes a spurious leap in logic.

3) Gestures, Incantation, discussion - fairly self-explanatory

4) Demonstration

5) Teach

I may start asking my students for more research in advance, actually, that might help. One thing Gwain does, which I really, really, really like, is teach them one bit, then get them to cast it, then comment on what they can do better. I've started using that in my lessons now.

That's just to elaborate on my actual lessons.

[Alvirin]

Surprisingly enough not all the lessons are about spells, yet I can understand that most are (there are a lot more of spells than skills of somewhat difficult access), and the fact that most skills can be trained by mobs doesn't help either, but a player that doesn't choose the easy route sure will find someone that will be able to find a tutor for that skill, that is up to them.

About choosing students; I think that a teacher is accountable to some extent of those who teach, if he would teach something to someone that even without being a faith enemy uses it to cause harm, disturb or something like that those close to him / friends / members of his church / allies of his faith / etc, it would be IC to blame on the teacher as it would be IC blame on him as well if his student would have taught something potentially dangerous to someone who will likely use it to cause harm/trouble, potentially dangerous/powerful skills/spells should be taught carefully and being sure to those who are taught.

Of course a teacher is free to teach whomever who wishes and in any way I don't wish to rule what is a good teacher policy or not, but if you teach to people that most people around you doesn't like or you teach something to someone which uses it to cause harm/annoy, others PC's might have the right (if they choose so) to blame you for teaching that to those.