Forgotten Kingdoms Forums

some people, i feel, through their RP and overall IC leetness *cough*Lathlain*cough* should be given back not only their white titles, but l51 as well. Any nab can create a character and level it up to 50 in 3 days and farm hobgoblin ears to buy pro sauce gear and be top fighter on the block, but it takes real dedication to RP and real skill to make a level 51 character. People who roleplay incredibly well should be given advantages over power-players, to begin with. IMO there should also be exclusive level 51 gear and other things to reward heroic characters for their time and effort.

There are already many rewards for roleplaying, and creating a character conducive to the setting and medium. Rewarding mechanical advantages for such displays are counter productive, and a little backwards.

The primary reward for creating a character that has lasted so long, is the enjoyment the player receives from being able to roleplay their little creation. It doesn't need mechanical boost for validation, and sends the wrong message to those who do well but don't receive the extra level...like being second at a beauty pageant.

I agree with Harroghty. The title system already does this. All the lords are now primarily known for their lord status in Waterdeep. I'd just suggest they switch their title to "Lord/Lady of Waterdeep".

As someone who has had held a white title or two before I just want to say this..

I'd rather they never existed. The headaches I could have avoided at so and so complaining about wossname having this and that...

Let the other players determine how that character is rewarded based on what they get from the roleplay. Let them vote the character into office. Let them decide he or she is probably one of the better characters to teach about honor and duty to young squires while not even being a paladin.

In short, people will always complain about something. At least make it so if they complain about it then they have no one to blame but themselves.

Oh, and the only mechanical advantage that white title(Level 51) gave was a couple hit-points and the Guard in Waterdeep's Market wouldn't gripe at you for casting spells.

Sorry Lathander! I had the wrong end of the stick - I didn't mean to give out misinformation.

I will say that I think removal of the hero level was the right thing to do, given the circumstances. Not all characters have aspirations of becoming a 'hero', but still knowing that they won't be able to attain their full potential has got to be galling. As Horace rightly says - good long-term roleplay tends to yield its own rewards besides!

As for white titles... well, I feel bad commenting on them as it's rather a selfish topic for me in particular, but I believe they would serve to provide a little more IC assurance (to the errant hopeful) at the very least. Lath'lain's title is an ever-changing, always convoluted web of phrases - but short of calling him 'Faith leader of Cyric', there will always be a certain level of doubt amongst hopefuls as to whether or not he can actually faith them. It can be argued that it wouldn't really matter either way, but people generally like to know where they stand before throwing themselves at someone else's mercy!

Ultimately though, it's not a breaking point. We get by happily either way!

Sorry Lathander! I had the wrong end of the stick - I didn't mean to give out misinformation.

My post was intended to provide historical context for the current state of white titles and correct the record. It wasn't intended to chastise you, or anyone else, for offering misinformation. Please don't feel that way.

Here's my PERSONAL opinion on the subject. I was against the removal of white titles when it was first proposed because I didn't like the reasons behind the proposal - perceived favoritism. In hindsight I think it was a good idea, but for different reasons. Basically, all of the reasons Isaldur outlines above. Waterdeep Lords, Illusionist guildmasters, Ranger Warden and the like don't really need the white title. The only thing I would change would be to allow white titles for faith leaders regardless of class, at their discretion. Not everyone would or should know the name of the faith leader of Mask for instance. That way, leaders like Lath'lain would have the option of taking a white title or not. I don't see much point in offering L51 again. It seemed to create a considerable amount of unwarranted OOC, if not IC, resentment against the players who had the extra level.

As someone who has a faith leader who is not a priest, I find that hopefuls manage to find me just fine. Would giving my character a white title help them find me? It might, but like I said there doesn't seem to be much trouble at the moment. That said, would I oppose having a white title? Not really, it's a nice little reward for putting in the role play to become a faith manager. But I also wouldn't cry if I didn't see it; like Harroghty said we still have the title system which can reflect positions(which I currently use). If non priest FMs were to receive white titles, I would say it is only because it doesn't make much sense to have white titles for priests but not for non priests.

I always thought that removal of lev 51 and white titles to address "favoritism" was a case of missing the point. It didn't address the problem that a couple players seemed to be allowed to "horde" multiple "prestige" positions, often without playing them. Adding additional FMs, some drawn from newer players, is what (mostly) fixed that!

I favor the white titles, which are very convenient to facilitating RP...though I agree they should be able to be toggled for those FMs/Heros' who want to stay on the downlow.

I already know I would lose this debate...but I was also in favor of keeping lev 51, because abilities should match the RP'd position. I wish that RP somehow granted as much coded skill as "twinkish" mob bashing, but I guess there's no getting away from that. The changes to skill betters have helped though!

Personally (and I have to declare an interest here!) I'd love to see white titles for FMs. Not just priests. With no added coded advantages. Quite a lot of the time, it's hard to make it know that your non-priest is actually the leader. Also, lots of people who are FM (those who want it made public) probably don't want to introduce themselves as "Hello, I'm the leader of the so-and-so faith". Especially if it's their RP to be quite self-effacing. However, even a self-effacing FM sometimes needs people to know who they are.

I think a white title ensures people always know who the FMs are in a given faith. Maybe it's possible to have it toggled for the Maskarran/Sharran faiths, if they want that to happen.

To summarise. What I'd like to see:

- White titles for non-priest FMs
- No white titles for other high-level personages (Lords of Waterdeep, for example! )
- No coded advantage for white titles

Well shoot, while reading this I had in my head what i was going to say and everything... but after reading Lerytha's last post... all I have to say to sum up everything i wanted to say was...

"Read her post again for me"


I would like to see one white title "Faith Manager" and have anyone in the "Faith Managers" section in your faith <faith list>

Even if you are a Maskarran/Sharran how would your faith grow if NO one knew you were a FM? I mean in reality, they would recruit, but you can't just wait around hoping someone you don't know will recruit you in the game.