Pregnancies

Gwain · Post by **Gwain** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:40 am

There have been examples in the past, one that is in the Kingdoms journal lore of a pc that became pregnant without applying for rp and gave birth in a matter of hours, her character was dealt with for this as was another that tried to rp that, and eventually a system for applying for special rp's like pregnancy was established (This is from the old forums so correct me if I am wrong) I would think that time is in the realm of the beholder and not in the realm of rationality. It is always the same day in Fk if you think it is, and as such, you can assume that you have either been pregnant a few months or more, it is your choice, a baby however has the supreme habit of arriving when least expected, and as such it is a truly suprising and engrossing rp.

Shabanna · Post by **Shabanna** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:12 am

Just wondered if anyone knows what the views on pregancy and drinking were historically during the FK time period. I know that fetal alcohol syndrome was not really something recognized until much more modern times. Im curious to know if it would have been considered Taboo during the dark/middle ages to have an ale or a glass of fruit wine?

I have noted, since I have been playing my preggo, that many people simply go by the stantard modern knowledge that we have... and though I do not see a problem with that... I think that from what I know of my theatre research whilst in college, people in general drank liquor, wine and ale because in many cases it was safer than the water supply...

It is interesting to see the very "modern" knowledge and views expressed ICLY but, im really interested to know if anyone has an historically correct reference to this subject.

Thanks
"The Banna"

Meekir · Post by **Meekir** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:07 am

I would say it took a while to connect actions during past nine months of pregnancy with bad outcomes in a child's development, and probably was not realized in the dark ages. This is an age where life was thought to spontaneously occur in trash heaps (where else could the flies and maggots come from?) and ugly babies were widely believed to be replacements from changling fairies.

If it were in a culture, it would be lumped in with other wives' tales, folklore, and superstitions. Especially in a world of magic and gods, you would be as likely to be advised to hang a mouse heart around your neck as a contraceptive (Jewish folklore), avoid lizards, pigs, and bakeries (old wedding superstition), or mix your blood with grain (a test for fertility) as be advised not to drink alcohol during pregnancy. But then, who knows how observant your local priest was?

It is also my experience that pregnant women are not only insane, but they also breathe fire and are ten feet tall.

This is not superstition, but observable fact.

Meekir

Gwain · Post by **Gwain** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:30 am

On another note, it was far safer to drink beer than water in the dark ages, to the point children drank. What seperates us in this period between then is the strength and variety of alchol, beer in small dosages should be fine, but binge drinking is not good for children most likely. Of course, there are a wide variety of non alcoholic beverages available in the mud.

(On that note, I do not reccomend rl expecting mothers drink, this is a mud not rl)

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:14 pm

I don't think pregnant, married women, drank in the fashion we do on FK. I think if they drank it was at dinner etc. If they did drink like we do in FK, then there would very likely be problems with their pregnancies/babies.

Concern that may be too early for its time = drinking in an exagerated way? We drink tanks and barrels of stuff, lol. Iono. Kind of an all around RP with "Should it be like blah?"

-Danica

Caelnai · Post by **Caelnai** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:56 pm

The recommendation against pregnant women drinking ANY beer or wine is a relatively modern phenomena. As recently as the 1950's and 1960's many doctors would prescribe "a beer a day" for pregnant women to control morning sickness and other "vapors". 'Tis true, just ask your mothers and grandmothers.

Drinking to excess and hard liquor is a different story, and in the middle ages not thought appropriate for women, pregnant or no. (The exception being medicinal liquors for respiratory and other ailments, treatments often restricted to the upper classes due to the cost.)

Shabanna · Post by **Shabanna** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:12 am

Okay...
A thought came to me whilst I was looking over some info about birthin babies in the realms....

When the papoose is born it is an object that can be carried and as I understand it there are some commands that come along with the object for RP purposes. Then eventually... the baby becomes a toddler and it says that the "mother" can order the baby around like a pet...

And so... I have a question since this application based RP is a TWO person RP... involving a Mommy and an Daddy it looks like Daddy will not be able to order the cute litte thing around. Now.. being a parent IRL... i know sometimes the kid will not listen

but... in general... Daddy should be able to have some control over the critter RIGHT?

My concern here is that we have a toddler coded as a pet linked to Mommy... and Daddy had no say, no real responsibility, and really not much involvement in the RP that he had to Apply for as well as mommy >.< Is there a way this can be changed? If this is an RP that requires both parents to submit an app... then shouldn't we look at ways to involve both players? Leaving the Dads with no way to control the child... seems a bit... wrong and not really fair to the Dads

I would very much like to hear back on this... as I think it is worth looking into

Thanks!

"The Banna"

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:25 am

I think it's good that way, personally. Firstly, the baby itself has a personality. If two people were playing the child order wise, I don't think it would be such a solid personality. I kind of put too much thought into my "Pets" though, whether it be toddler or cat, lol. Then of course, there's the fact that the mother spends RL years of being pregnant. At the end of that, it's kind of like the ending reward to all of that. Being pregnant is fun, yes, but there's soooo much you shut your character off to. Your character will never be what is was before that until the child is made into a pc. Being able to have the mob and the fun of roleplaying it is like a sweet sweet ending to all the years of not being able to adventure with the pregnant mommy. The Daddys get to still adventure AND roleplay with the child. Just because they can't be the one roleplaying as the child through order doesn't mean they have to have no part in it. :D

loveandcookies
-D

Shabanna · Post by **Shabanna** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:07 pm

I respectfully disagree. I think that having only the mother PC have the ability to handle the child, just sets up a situation where the father applies for an RP but is really no *active* part of it. If that is the case... then I think it should be up to the mother alone since she is the only one who will ever have to deal with the bellies and the "pet". And I feel sorry for the father PCs cause they get the short end of the stick

My point here, is that, I believe it would make for much more RP opportunity for both players who apply to have the potential to be actively involved if they choose. If the admins require a 2 person app for the RP... then I think there really should be some chance for both players to have more interaction and control of the "child" pet.

As it stands now I feel the person who applies for the father really gets nothing out of the RP when it is said and done. I see your point that it is a bit of a reward... but How many fathers will just simply abandon the RP since they have no chance at all to be more than just an observer?

Two people apply for the RP and one has all the cool echoes and gets the pet. If there is no reward for the Father PC...then Why bother to have both write an app??? The father PC has no reward for hanging round being an outsider while the mother gets all the cool echoes and stuff. But, conversely there are no consequences for a father who abandons the RP lol. A mother abandons the kid in the middle of the road... and she will suffer plenty ICly

As for personality... I have a toddler and she is like Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde

lol Not to mention that when the child is grown... I imagine it will be played by a different person and so that player will be making that character their own and developing the personality at a later date. Just my thought.

Which leads me to my next point. 16 months RL time is 16 years game time... how do we currently age children? I would think that the child would age fairly quickly that alone would mean drastic changes in personality as the toddler ages into a kid and then teen. and we all know.. noone can control a teen

Roflmao!

The Pregnancy lasting 9-12 years game time (or however many depending on your race) is reasonable but I would think that the child would age a bit more in tune with game time? maybe a bit slower then actual game time of 16 months but, it makes no sense to drag it out endlessly so that parents can have a cute little bald cat with diapers. lol currently there is no information on the length of time a child is a pet since there have not been that many pregnancies in the realms.

I guess I am trying to touch on some things and see if they have been discussed before or if there are plans in the making that PCs are not privvy to currently. I know often things are being worked on behind the scenes by the Admin, Imm, coding elves and we do not always know. So I figure that it is better to ask

"The Banna"

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:30 pm

I'd hope the PC child and the NPC toddler have different personalities! lol That would be so odd if they still behaved like a baby! I just don't think fathers have as little involvement as you feel like they do, imo. You apply as a father to be able to participate in the rp in general. Without that application you don't have the right to say you're the daddy, to roleplay with the npc baby as the daddy, etc. If you stick around with the mom, I can't think of anyone who would avoid having the baby smote with the dad. For someone with a baby who is missing that part of the roleplay, I feel like it's really a pretty hefty part of the roleplay(the daddy). People apply for roleplay that requires no coding all the time, this is just like that. I don't think being a dad is an unrewarding rp if you're an active dad who gets into it. There's always reward to being able to participate in an rp you apply to do so in - participating in it. :) Not just any old bub on the street can be a babydaddy. :3 lol

I'm sorry I keep disagreeing, lol. It's the whole loud and opinionated thing. :3

-D

Lea · Post by **Lea** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:20 am

I hate to disagree with you Mele but you also have the other parent missing with your rp so your situation is a little bit different and I can understand why you are coming from where you are. But you also need to try and look at it from the other point of view. I know that Ursan would like to have alot more interaction with ours. When I went link dead because of rl issues he had to find a way to deal with the baby so it didn't end up dead. If an imm hadn't got involved in the rp it would have been to the point he wouldn't be able to log on until I had come back. I think it would be a good idea for the fathers to be able to be involved more. I think they would like to be able to go about and take care of the kids and be more active in the actual rp with them.

Theillik · Post by **Theillik** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:46 am

I am sure that Daylahn and Mariela will have a baby sometime. As father (hopes he's the father:D), I would want to be able to control the baby and take care of it at times, in baby and toddler form.

Maybe the baby could be a combination pet/cart: to switch parents use the CLAIM command.

So, my vote has to go with allowing both mother and father control of the baby/toddler.

An IC reason would be that BOTH parents contribute to moulding the personality of a child.

There you go, there's a male's perspective.

Mariela · Post by **Mariela** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:40 am

I am awful at remember to smote the pet I have. I dunno if I would want to be sole custody of a little tot when there is a father who can go out with said tot and impress his friends with his smoting abilities.

That's just me. A combined "pet" would be awsesome.

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:18 am

I brushed on the fact that I am missing a parent, and said it only makes me feel even more like the father is a large part of the roleplay without the extra coding, actually. :) I am looking at both sides, and I do have a different opinion rightfully. :) Whether or not the father can personally smote does not limit his involvement with the child. That's not a negative opinion and I'm not being rude. :)

I feel like with two people both making the child emote you would get things like:

Child sits down and eats a sandwich.
Child gets up and dances and cheers.

Someone says to child, "Do you like cereal?"
Child says "NO!"
Child says "YES!"
parents osay Oops lol!

I really think it would be a very confusing thing. I think perhaps instead of dual control over it should be something decided over who gets to control the child when it's born. Which parent gets to create the childs personality. Because that is really all the emote controller is doing, creating the childs personality. If the father has a problem with the personality the mother creates, that is not a code issue.

-D

Raona · Post by **Raona** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:33 am

Aside from the personality issue, it seems to me that Theillik's excellent suggestion would solve most of the other issues, and also not require much in the line of new code. If either parent could CLAIM without the other first dismissing, they could deal with AFK/Link Dead parents. It would also allow each parent more or less RP responsibility for the child, as they agree upon.

The personality issue that Mele raises, I do find compelling. But since a child is a developing being, changing all the time with a little bit of each parent in it and likely emulating each of them as well, I'm not sure that it overwhelms the more OOC issues around "sharing" a child, to my eyes.

For what it's worth, from a lass who'll never have kids!

Theillik · Post by **Theillik** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:27 pm

I think that if the father cannot smote with their child, it does limit his involvement with the child. A father has no involvement in situations where the mother went link dead or if the mother is offline. If the player of the mother goes on vacation for a month, the father doesn't see his child for a year (in game).

If I was a child, I would want to be brought up by both parents

Shabanna · Post by **Shabanna** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:05 pm

Not to seem obnoxious... lol but I have a Toddler... she is 3 and she is about the most unpredictable human I have ever known. She experiences every emotion from joy too angst in a 20 second period with NO warnings...

I have personally seen my daughter IRL say Yes and NO to a question asked and think nothing of it. lol Toddlers are odd, unpredictable and say things you could not imagine (for those who want a good laugh ... OOCly ask my IRL hubby Todd about our trip to Cracker Barrel with our oldest when he was a toddler... I cant post it here cause it was an "OMG I can't believe my kid said THAT" moment >.<) So yeah, I think having both parents in the same room, making the child smote would be a hoot! It would allow for total surprise on occasion and maybe a bit of spontaneous fun for both!

If you were the type who did not like that I suppose you could refrain from making the child smote when you were in the same room with your IC spouse and you could just allow them control for that time so that things felt consistent to you. Or perhaps agree over Otell who would have control... if you both felt uncomfy with the dual wielding of the child. lol I think that is a simple fix to any discomfort it would cause those who like sole control.

I never actually thought about the situation Lea brought up... It makes even more of a case for "dual" control of the child, to think that the possibility of the child starving to death or being stolen or something when you go link. I can not imagine this is impossible with the code?

This discussion is quite enjoyable...I would love to hear more from the Daddies and potential or wanna be Dads out there. It was refreshing to hear from one of the guys and would be a treat to hear from some of the already Dad's out there. I think having the OPTION for both parents to control the child is a good thing. In the case of a Mom who wants sole control... I suppose you could arrange that OOCly with the daddy

but it would be great for those who want to share

Thanks to everyone participating in this friendly discussion

It is nice to get a good sampling of opinions especially from Mele and Lea who already have their little bald critters

Regards,
"The Banna"

Waukeen · Post by **Waukeen** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:11 pm

It is not really IC for a newborn to be able to be fed by the father, in my opinion. There are two baby objects, keep in mind

. The second baby object can be fed by ANYONE, so if the mother times out and the father has the baby, it's no problem. Or, even better, the father can quit WITH the baby.

Currently, the code does not allow for duel ownership of a "minion", so the mob goes to the mother (or father; you can choose if you like, though it defaults to the mother). Nonetheless, as the one who oversees the pregnancies and babies etc. now, I prefer to give the mob to the mother for the reasons Mele mentioned, and I do agree that just because the father does not necessarily have complete control over the mob, doesn't mean that he has no control over the RP, or no part in it. To me, the mob is like a big RP reward for the mother for having done nothing BUT RPed and not gotten to ICly gain coin or battle; however, if the mothers and fathers in the MUD would like to share this RP, there may be a way to arrange that. I'm just not sure how yet.

(As a side note, if I see any pregnant mommies drinking to excess in the game, be forewarned that there will be IC consequences. Yes, a bit of drinking might not affect the baby, but don't expect to go out and get drunk with no consequence.

)

Shabanna · Post by **Shabanna** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:00 am

Ooo do the Dads get to have consequences for what they do in the preg RP too? lol I mean for not bringing in those delicacies like pickled potatoes and fudge? or fresh mushroom bread with snail lip butter? *gasp* After all if Mom can not eat how will that baby grow?

lol

Might I suggest adding a few NON alcoholic drinks to the taverns and inns in the Mommie friendly cities? It is not always easy ICLY to get these things. And Ill be frank due to some "poisoning attempts"... water from a fountain in the square is *not* the safest bet for a mom-to-be

It would be SUPER for RP if the inns that were open late served preg friendly drinks ;D I hate having to dig in my pack for 3000 year old milk when I go to sit in a tavern with friends and chat

Also... FYI one sip of a drink makes you have drunk symptoms... so when people think you are sloshed... you are not. AND beware the darned Beer Golem. >.<

Ninde · Post by **Ninde** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:38 am

I would like to bump this thread to ask a few questions. To be honest, I am not sure on roleplaying topics, and that's why I keep Ninde in one place since her pregnancy RP has started.

First, how IC would it be if a pregnant would travel time to time upon a mount, when there is some people to protect her?

I can assume that it is more dangerous as the time goes. But in the first stages, how dangerous would it be?

Second, in alot of FR books, you can see how mother elves start to interact with their children when they are within the wombs of their mother. Is there any limitation for that kind of roleplay?

I honestly would like to see some guideline for pregnancy roleplay still. I know it might be too much, but of course it would be very enlightening for the ones have not been pregnant IRL. I mean, I have a general opinion, but still I am afraid to get into some roleplaying mistake

Pregnancies

Parenting in the Realms