Called Shot

[Llanthyr]

http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/board/ ... .php?t=664

After reading the above thread, I think that a solution for that would be a called shot feat. Called shot can be done at a penalty to target a specific body part of your enemy.

[Rhelian]

It would be a bad idea for the reasons listed in that same thread though. Essentially someone with 5-6 attacks a round would win a fight within 2-3 rounds of fighting

[Taerom]

Hey, maybe it would even the playing field between warrior subclasses and the wizards who can often kill with a SINGLE SPELL, at range. (A transmuter once killed my fighter who was at level 43, with a single cast, from full health, with full armor, and "nearly immune" magic resistance)

Seems to me like this is just a bit of the wizards who don't even use their spells to their full potential in battle trying to keep their lives easy. I thought this mud was about realism, but now I can't decide I want to try my darndest to chop off someone's head? But at the same time, I can fall asleep at the drop of a hat? Bah.

[Stayne]

[quote = "Taerom"]Hey, maybe it would even the playing field between warrior subclasses and the wizards who can often kill with a SINGLE SPELL, at range. (A transmuter once killed my fighter who was at level 43, with a single cast, from full health, with full armor, and "nearly immune" magic resistance)
[quote]

Nasty isn't it those wizards. But if you really want realism, the ones who maybe don't know an instant kill spell - watch them dimension door, or teleport or fly about 40-50 metres from you, then start blasting the area with bolts of lightning, storms of ice or balls of fire. If you do managed to fire off a ranged weapon, see it uselessly fall against a shield of protection from normal missiles, or bounce of a stone skin to just name two. Then perhaps you get really lucky and get in close enough to take a swing with a weapon, should I start naming all the nasty spells that stop that? Perhaps I will just give an example and see you sever the head of a mirror image *lol*
Is the mud realistic, no - its not, because the true power of a high level wizard is not possible on the mud (at least compared to TT). Fighters have always been seen as the power class (rangers probably more so) as they can effectively solo an area, even at low levels. Some mage types can't even do that at high levels.
Its all give and take really. While I feel for you in that your fighter died from one spell, I am glad that your fighter has learnt some respect for magic.

As for the call shot, I agree with Rhelian about the past thread. Things might not be balanced completely, but for now it works and works fine. While it is true that fighters will go after critical points as trained, its just not true that they will oft get to go toe-to-toe with everyone/thing that they meet as it happens in the mud. The way it is makes the game more fun, and the rest - well a good bit of smoting and RP can make it all real before you even get near code!

Just my thoughts
-Stayne

[Selveem]

I have to admit, one-hit-kill spells are way too powerful. Almost to the point that it sickens me. But after thinking about it, I realized that for many casters, this is the ONLY way they could ever possibly beat out creatures such as a Marilith.. unlike some warriors who are able to. Now, I do agree that this 'power' is far too easy to abuse, but that was why (as far as I've heard) that the Immortals placed in a RP rule for spells such as that when used in PK situations. Many, unfortunately, still abuse the spells and will likely ruin it for a great many people. Those are the ones Immortals are generally focusing their 'fix you' time for anyhow, so don't fret.

Called shot sounds nice. I have thought about it quite a bit, but.. I don't know. I'm not a fan of those one-hitter spells, so I would feel much a hypocrite if I was pro-one-rounder abilities for warriors.

Sorry :/

-Anthony

[Rhelian]

Hey, maybe it would even the playing field between warrior subclasses and the wizards who can often kill with a SINGLE SPELL, at range. (A transmuter once killed my fighter who was at level 43, with a single cast, from full health, with full armor, and "nearly immune" magic resistance)

For starters, instantkilling with one hit spells (if they work) even from a distance are severely hampered by IC and OOC rules of use to stop wizards killing people outright. As for evening a playing field, it is currently strongly skewed in teh favour of warriors and warrior subclasses over wizards. The fact your fighter can even GET magic resistance that high is a problem in itself - but that is just a personal opinion. I've long been a fan of limiting any real magic resistance to those who actually use magic, similar to D&D rules. Small resistances, good. Neraly immune, bad.

I don't know how you can see wizards often instantkilling other classes. Only two wizard guilds have access to an instantkill spell each - transmuters and illusionists. Even then, component costs are high, and they can be resisted. There are also logs inplace to check every use of instant kill spells so that they aren't used incorrectly. Substantial RP has to go into their use as well.

Seems to me like this is just a bit of the wizards who don't even use their spells to their full potential in battle trying to keep their lives easy. I thought this mud was about realism, but now I can't decide I want to try my darndest to chop off someone's head? But at the same time, I can fall asleep at the drop of a hat? Bah.

Realism? I assume you aren't talking about real-life realism, but D&D. In that case, a wizard should be able to kill you three ways from Sunday before you can blink. Everything in D&D is about payoffs. Fighters are tanks, huge hit points, weapon skills, fast leveling and brilliant at lower levels. Higher levels, they tend to slack off. Wizards on the other hand have hardly any hitpoints, little weapon skills, and take a long time to level up. But when they do, watch out. They have spells out the wazoo that can kill a fighter in ways that are beyond imagination.

Realism again, a wizard is not going to go toe-to-toe with someone. Keeping this in mind, fights like the following should be commonplace:

Wizard: I don't want to fight
Fighter: Die wizard!
Wizard: smote flies into the air well beyond reach of $fighter under the affects of their flight spell
Wizard: osay Go killmode nofight unless you're using ranged weapons, alright? I'm fifty odd feet above you here
Wizard: rains lightning bolts down on fighter - lightning bolts actually do decent damage and bring fighter down to 20% in four or five casts
Fighter: shoots arrows at wizard, hitting some of the time, which are then deflected by numerous enchantments. Fighter flees or dies.

Using spells to full potential? But a few liens ago you complained that wizards can actually cast powerful spells that can hurt your character more than falling off a horse. Again, using spells to full potential should be as follows:

Fighter: I'm going to use all my skills, bash, kick, and four attacks a round, plus dual wield.
Wizard: Alright. /casts disintegrate

Using all a wizards skills, in all fairness, should include the spells that can do damage. Also, for realism and full effectiveness, a magic missile or acid arrow directly in the face should easily equal the damage caused by five or six sword hits in one round. Probably more so. If a wizard can kill a same level fighter with about ten magic missiles, then I'm pretty sure the balance is about even.

I'm not sure if you have a wizard alt, but try making one who's a necromancer or a straight mage before telling people they don't know how to use them to their full potential. Wizards aren't an easy class to play, and giving a fifth attack enchanced damage platemail wearing warrior a chance to kill most wizards in one round instead of three isn't really a good idea.

[Stayne]

Using all a wizards skills, in all fairness, should include the spells that can do damage. Also, for realism and full effectiveness, a magic missile or acid arrow directly in the face should easily equal the damage caused by five or six sword hits in one round. Probably more so. If a wizard can kill a same level fighter with about ten magic missiles, then I'm pretty sure the balance is about even.

Ok - I'll bite
A magic missile or acid arrow from a high level and highly skilled mage (such as yourself Rhelian? ) Should do the same or more than 5-6 sword strikes *regardless* of where it hits.
Ten magic missiles taking down an equivilant level warrior?! Actually, doing a quick number crunch that is probably about right. Ten magic missiles at MINIMUM damage is still 100hp of damage. This will take out alot of warriors and mobs. By numbers again a level 20 (max by books) warrior getting minimum scores with a half decent CON is still looking at about 70 HP.
The problem is is that 10 magic missiles in FK will not do that amount of damage. I would be surprised if it even took off 50% of most warriors.

Perhaps we need to see the normal offence spells (magic missile, acid arrow, lightning bolt, fireball, cone of cold etc..) doing realistic damage (ie. equivilant % raise in damage output as compared to everyones equivilant %raise of HP as the code does it). This will lead people to respect wizards more (something that has been hotly discussed) as well as move people towards not having to rely on insta-kill spells to the point that we may be able to remove them (something I think is a decent option to head towards as I am not a fan of ANY insta-blik skill/spell/ability).

Ok - got carried away, but I can't help it. I love my wizards....
-Stayne

[Nysan]

Just got to... I just got to put in my two cents here. My oldest running character in the mud to date is and has always been a wizard, mage to be specific. I've run him just about since the beginning of my FK career (two years, give or take). I will allow people to guess as to his abiltites and such, but... I still have to take a moment when considering any action against other player run characters. My little mage may have some talent, but a good fighter can put doubt in his head. A few instantkill spells here and there are in the wizard's possible paths. But, as Rhel said, compents- just about as expensive as a decent set of armor and almost as rare as a dwarf with too much mithril. One must remember these all powerful spells are still trained like normal stuff, low level limits on training at best from NPCs. So... a fair size fortune in components and quite some time target practicing to learn the spell to a level that will work at least half the time and yes, a wizard has a one hit kill spell. Is it unfair? I don't think so (also a personaly opinion from a wizard player), considering fighters don't need as much to get a five hit combo attack added on to dodging and magic resistance and any defensive spells their companions might have laid on them. In all seriousness, I have seen these instantkill spells used... 3 or 4 times successfully against other players in my time here. In the end, it might be possible to get there, but the trip is long and hard. AND, anyone with that kind of patience and dedication to a character usually (not always) wants to keep that character around and does not use those spells often to keep imms happy. Ok, I'm done.

N.R.

[Selveem]

While many have worked a long time on their wizards, I happen to know a thing or two about them myself - having had two successful ones to date (even though I generally dislike playing them for some odd reason).

Yes, it takes time to get spells up, but in all honesty with the extremely high intelligence (and generally wisdom to boot) spells go up much faster than a fighter's skills do. I have played Selveem for a large amount of time and anyone who knows me personally can vouch for the enormous amounts of time that I have devoted to training his skills.

But you know what? Even though I have trained him for so very long, _many_ (and I mean many) of his skills are nowhere even near Master. Why? Because it takes time for anyone to build a legend.

I find it offensive that, often, people would go to such a length to discredit the amount of patience and time someone has spent on building/training their character.

All of this must be balanced out by spending much more of your time roleplaying.

To make a strong character is a slow progression. Regardless of race or class. That should always be something that is taken into account and respected.

Now that I'm done with my rant, here's the meat of my arguement:

Having several friends who play priests and wizards with these particular spells, I have seen some very amazing things happen. Things such as going all the way to Skullport alone, when likely, my fighter would never make it. And to boot, they can do it in record time, whereas my fighter would have to spend an enormous amount of time healing. There are also several little tricks that wizards can do to heighten their chances of survival. Fighters, let's face it, are bare bones. You get hit? That's your real health dwindling there. Hope you have a priest or some of those amazingly expensive heal potions.

[Elenthis]

Alright guys...I hope I might bring more wisdom to this already 'chock full' conversation. I am (possibly) still new to this mud with just over 100 hours. My character level is NO WHERE near the 'higher' levels. Now, first...I want to say that this is my only charachter. So anything I say reguarding other classes might just plain be wrong. That being said...

I know that I could have attained maybe 4-5 levels more with my Mage in these last 100 hours and more...but not as many as I'd think would have been possible in the same amount of time for a fighter. Between the cost of spells, and the general non-willingness of people who I happen to be around to go out questing with any wizard who can't cast fly, leveling is HARD. (This is a side-affect also, however, to a probably unhealthy enjoyment of RP.)

Second point: As I only play a mage, I only know what -I- want for my mage. And one of them is NOT to get more powerful spells. Maybe a wider selection but not more Power. I chose this class for 2 reasons.
1: I also have an unhealthy love for magic, and 2: Elves can be thrown in too... That being said, I fear that with more powerful spells, or by strengthening the wizard class in any way, there may be more players desiring to play that class. I play a mage because it is hard and difficult, and more importantly because it is rare. Those of you who have RP'ed with me on any standard basis know that I play a specific mindset for a mage as well. I would hate to see the wizard population increase relatively to the rest. but thats just me:)

Anyhow...thats it for now
~Elenthis.