Forgotten Kingdoms Forums

With the new random quest rewards, there are now a lot of wands in circulation, which is really awesome, and in part inspired me to create a rogue to make the most of these new items. However to my dismay I've found that

1. the only method of recharging wands I've found so far is with the aid of a mob, who charges in excess of 100 platinums per wand. "help recharge" seems to suggest a player could do it as well, but I've not yet found anyone who actually knows how to do that.

2. all the wands that come as random rewards start out nearly empty of charges

Would it be possible to cheapen the cost of recharging, or at least let reward wands start out at full charge?

I have yet to find myself in need of using the recharge command in recent years. Some years ago, it worked on several wands and staves I recharged however. Is this a issue of no one you have met understanding how to recharge or is the recharge command not working properly now? It is one of those rarely used commands I wouldn't be surprised got broke without realizing it.

The "recharge" spell mentioned in HELP RECHARGE does seem to be out of commission.

The command RECHARGE is active, but I have no idea where one can do it, if it works anywhere.

If a wand it used until its last charge is gone, it explodes into fragments. Perhaps that is the intent for the new treasure wands that are turning up?

Raona wrote:If a wand it used until its last charge is gone, it explodes into fragments. Perhaps that is the intent for the new treasure wands that are turning up?

First came the disposible razor....

now all new from wilkinson sword, the mach 3, fusion more charges than ever before disposible wand....less irritation upon explosion!

Rules says:

A wand is a thin baton that contains a single spell of 4th level or lower. Each wand has 50 charges when created, and each charge expended allows the user to use the wand's spell one time. A wands that runs out of charges is just a stick.

And it would take a hell of a nice DM to let you get full wands each time.

let's be practical

1. as it is, wands are near unused, I've never seen in all my years of play someone do something constructive with wands
2. there are a looooot of wands running around now with the random quest rewards, might want to put those to use instead of just having it be more clutter right
3. ALL new quest reward wand start with low charges, at least according to identification
4. recharge at a wand shop costs in excess of 100 platinums, which means no one will be doing that just to regain a few more castings of a low level spell

i think this is clearly a problem that should be addressed, in some way.

I use wands..they are extra free spells, comes in ultra useful when you run out of spells, in practice it is a multiple use scroll.
But it should not be rechargeable, it is a consumable, much like potions or scrolls.
And if it becomes common then it's even less problem to not being able to recharge them.

Brar wrote:I use wands..they are extra free spells

If you use "free" as a relative term, sure! Especially when you consider the 100+ recharge cost.

I haven't seen many people use wands or staves myself; In fact, I can only remember one being used in practical application.. Even though he was high level, it backfired and he took the damage. I've not seen him use them since.

In D&D, I like wands. In D&D, I love potions. In FK, I really just don't have the interest in either. The exception, however, is in a severe pinch (like drowning). In combat, a potion is a wasted effort and, unless you can make them yourself, a poor use of your wealth. That's my personal experience, anyhow, which has formed my opinion.

Again, Wands are not supposed to be recharged as per DnD rules.
They are consumables, which means once you use it, you discard it.

And we're speaking about wands given as random rewards so yes in my eyes they are free spells and only a bonus, and I think players should be glad about any free bonus they get, now if you choose not to use them, then it's your choice to give up on some free bonus (but beware of the consequence on your claims about difficulty scaling when you publicly admit to give up on a free added method of protection , staying coherent is the first step of convincing)

Much like all the potions given as random rewards are free buffs.
And I fail to see how anything given for free can be a waste, I mean it's free so it's 100% gain.

Now for the explosive part, was it a wand he was able to use? Because I may be lucky but nor my priest, nor my ranger ever had that things happened.

Wands/staves: They are often unused because of their current status in FK. In the current "40+ platinum at shop" or "rare quest reward", added in the random chance of backfire (read the backfire helpfile)... yeah, there is no wonder why people don't use them, beyond the random water breathing or fly staff. I firmly believe if they became easier to come by they would be in circulation more. As it is, I wouldn't want to waste a 50 platinum investment I cannot replace, at all, on a poor roll against the backfire code. One of the reasons I have been dusting off and echoing my old idea thread on staves/wands crafting from 2008 whenever the topic comes up:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8692&hilit=wand

Potions: Off topic, but since it was mentioned... Cost is the hinderance here. Many brewers are locked into an old agreement on potion pricing. Not knocking this agreement, just saying it makes potions less attractive to most people. I have 2 brewing characters, one is tied this agreement and one is not. There is a clear difference between the number of potions each character has sold over the years. Even with the combat drinking check, a 4 gold healing potion is a lot easier to consider than a 10 platinum healing potion. Out-of-combat potions, well thats up to the user. Not saying potions should be handed out like apple tarts, but no one considers 5 platinum for cure light x3 potion a good investment, especially after healing % reduction.

Random quest rewards replace set quest rewards, which for the most part were permanent, usable equipments, and each character only gets so many chances at them. If, as things go on, all quest rewards become randomized, then this will become the most important way for players to gain new items. I don't see what's free about it.

Brar wrote:(but beware of the consequence on your claims about difficulty scaling when you publicly admit to give up on a free added method of protection , staying coherent is the first step of convincing)

The characters I have that can use them don't _need_ them. If my fighter could use them, it'd be wonderful. Potions are nearly a waste. That's the only thing fighters can use.

I have tried to use wands in a constructive way. Buying them at 40+ platinum then having them blow up at my third use. (Well, one lasted like... 6?) So, for all that "free" spell casting I got out of it, along with all that free damage I received, I stopped using them. They are not practical nor are they cost effective at this time. In d&d, wands are excellent and wizards love to use them. Perhaps in the future when they we can craft them, they will have a bit more use here.

to summarize, these are the 3 problems we are facing

1. a lot of characters who receive wands as quest rewards (as well as scrolls) can't use them.

the previous solution: of course one could simply trade it to someone who CAN use them. However there are now so many quest wands running around (it is about the most common random reward and you can expect to get it from pretty much any quest with random rewards) that you would need a very heavy demand on wands to unload them all.

the proposed solution: perhaps lower the frequency of wands and scrolls a bit? However this is not necessary provided the next points are resolved

2. even if we wanted to use these wands, they always come with low charges, and the only method of recharging (that has been revealed to me) costs in excess of several hundred platinums each

the previous solution: well you can sell the wands I guess. There actually ARE merchants who buy wands, but if all the quest rewards just end up being sold it sort of defeats the point.

the proposed solution: let these wands come with more charges or make recharging cheaper/more accessible

3. using wands is simply not practical. they backfire, they cannot be effectively wielded in combat (a wizard would have to hold just a wand, in which case he provokes attacks of opportunity for being unarmed, or hold a weapon and a wand, in which case he can't cast spells for not having free hands. A bard makes similar sacrifices, and a thief can not dual wield while using a wand), and despite what brar says I can not understand how wands are "ultra useful when you run out of spells." Assuming he was talking about FK and not DnD, in what situation exactly would you be willingly engaging in battle when you have run out of spells, just because you have a couple of wands? And emergency magic missiles are pretty unlikely to decide an encounter in any case.

the proposed solution: remove backfiring of wands, and make it either possible to use wands in inventory or to cast while holding a wand + a weapon.

I understand that the new random quest reward system is in its infancy, and I would love to see it flower and become the standard for all quest rewards, as that would certainly make things a lot more interesting. However I believe the fact that a lot of random quest rewards are nearly useless is detrimental to the system. Granted wands are still more useful than, for example, scrolls of Cause Light, but I would welcome changes to improve upon that.

Canon D&D rules support Isolrem's claims #2 and #3:

For #2: In D&D, wands come with 50 charges but cannot be recharged.

For #3: In D&D, wands do not backfire and wands do not invoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent. Config +nofight (we're assuming a free hand and a wand in this case, so no weapon) and a wand should let a wizard cast spells without invoking attacks of opportunity.

I think I'm consensus with the others: if wands were changed to be simpler and straight-forward to use, then I might use them. As of now, I just bag 'em and forget 'em.

Problem with killmode nofight is it stops other PCs from attacking you when you try to pull a fast one. I've seen wizards and priests use it as a shield to avoid PCs from being able to beat them when they've begun conflict.

Example based on actual occurrence wrote: I've got an upper-mid-level transmuter.. He just can't stand Moranall because of his relaxed demeanor. I'm doing everything I can to taunt him because I think he'll put up wiith it.

OH CRAP! Moranall's gonna fight back!

*switches to killmode nofight when I see Moranall draw his weapon and doesn't back down, continuing to talk crap*

Moranall attacks, getting a single round in. It hurt a lot, but I'm just going to disintegrate him now because he's lag-locked due to his attack!

*manages to hit Moranall's head/chest and Moranall dies instantly, I smote dusting my hands off and kicking the body a few times, muttering "That'll teach you." for daring to attack!*

Realistically, this would be no different. It's not a good PVP solution when I whip out my wand of enervation and proceed to zap you and walk away after the combat round. Yeah, one can scoff and say "Oh, when does something like that happen?" Sure, it's rare, but that makes it more abusable when it becomes an 'accepted' part of MUD mechanics. I'm all for it in a PVE instance as mobs aren't forced to stop attacking, but in PVP I consider it code abuse (as well as unsportsmanlike) when both parties don't agree.

I think a better solution would just have the code recognize a wand as a form of weapon so it doesn't provoke attack of opportunity.

Well, I'm not discussing PvP as I don't do that, but one situation where wands comes in life savior.

3 guys, underdark. You're ambushed by 3 following monsters. Priest and wizard run out of spells, it would be very unIC to meditate there. Everyone is at 30% health and you see monsters everywhere around. Then you bless that wand of invisibility the wizard get out of his pack and the wand of cure serious from the priest, even if those have a small risk of backfire.

In combat situation: your wizard is low on spells, same for your cleric and you get ambush by 2 Umber Hulks, you're gonna love this fireball wand the mage keeps at the ready with alias, for you would be dead without it.

That's two examples and there could be millions like this...
Of course for the first one, you can go unIC and meditate in the middle of the monsters den 2 minutes to get all your spells back...

I'm not, nor do I think any of us are, debating whether or not wands and staves sound great in theory.

In practice, however, is very different.

If your priest is that low on spells and he's starting to zap around with a wand or brandish a stave, good odds are you guys are screwed. I'm sorry, but neither of those are going to save most people in that case. Now, you say that same circumstance vs a group of Goblins or Dretches.. I could buy that. But in your scenario I'd suggest trying your theory, but I really wouldn't wish a party to die.

With regards to the wand of invisibility, sure! But potions are pretty accessible for invisibility - just saying.

The thing is, when you _don't_ see much of something, it's generally due to two reasons:

1: The action is illegal.
2: The action benefit is wholly outweighed by the hassle, drawback.

That's been my experience, anyhow.

It's easy to dismiss it by just saying that many people just have personal preferences that don't include utilizing all resources available or people don't think about trying it because you're smarter than they are. I've found, however, that people generally gravitate more towards what they experience success with. Because, let's face it, being successful is nice!

Now, if you take that idea and expand it towards other instances in the game, you'll notice that's the case with many things: Rogues and Druids are not highly popular primary character choices. Few people actively use stun skill. Lapidary is highly underutilized. No warriors specialized in the use of nets (or any weapon without a magical counterpart available in-game, for that matter). Etc, etc.

*edited to include: for the record, I'm not saying that you're suggesting you're smarter than anyone else.. *

Lets see now...

1. Haven't used wands recently, a few staves though. Didn't realize wands are coded for attack of opportunity these days. This should be looked into. Wands have enough drawbacks built in to not compound it further with attacks of opportunity.

2. Backfire, in theory, is a good idea. A coded method of wands not working right after a failed check, similar to concentration checks for spells. The problem arises in the result. In my opinion, wands should lose charges or break upon a failed backfire check. We have similar code regarding drinking potions during combat. Chances of damaging explosions is a bit extreme these days.

3. Hate seeing wands, and to a lesser extent non-crafted scrolls, being sold to shops. Rather see them used, odd I know. I don't want to see them flagged as no-sale to force player-to-player trading either. The draw is great... few players, if any, will pay the coin most wands/scrolls/potions will get from NPC shops. So... maybe we could drop the value these new quest rewards are worth in shops? Not saying these items should be worthless to NPCs, but some of these values... its a one stop lottery payout.

4. Wands, staves, potions, scrolls are great. If you do not see a use for them, it is a pitty. Granted, we are currently coded to diminish their use, but I hope that will change in time. I cannot count how many times my mage or my priest would have liked a scroll/wand/staff/potion of XX spell because they couldn't fit it into their spell slot limit or they were deep in a dungeon, no good place to meditate, and were out of spells. My mage would love to store all his offensive spells in wands/staves and save spell slots for utility and defensive spells... always running out of room for mirror image. Nysan would rather use a flying staff and free up slots for healing spells. Gilain... well, he likes to sell stuff to priests and wizards. *shrug*

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