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I really feel like the wizards of the game are quite difficult when it comes to spells, and to new players that may want to be a wizard make it too daunting. I feel that allowing them access to meditate earlier on will allow them to practice the skill earlier in their career when they already know some spells. This slight alteration would only encourage people to continue on the wizard path without really taking away something that fuels apart of the game for many characters.

This came from ideas from another post, but I do believe something needs to be done about spells and wizard to encourage players both old and new.

Just for wizards? I think it's a great idea for wizards (come to think of it, I had the same idea), but it's equally great for priests. The only classes that should be getting meditate later on in their careers are the non-primary casters (rangers, paladins, bards).

Are there any reasons why a change like this would be a bad thing?

It is unfair however to compare what training is like for wizards to what it is for priests. As it stands presently the wizard class should either have a kismet requirement or at least a warning to newbies. Because if you do not have friends to help you the entire way, it will take you at least 20 hours to get to the lvl 21 required to begin to do anything. And you will die no small number of times along the way. I'll put in another 5 hours to graduate from the school, although again for players new to the game some of those quests will basically appear impossible. With the player base as small as it is presently it is honestly not an approachable class, at least for newbies.

I think this change would be nice, but it is a small step towards making wizards not absolutely horrible to start.

Like I said in the other thread, and as Isolrem says, I don't think twiddling the meditate skill is the answer. I know that if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, but focussing on the meditate skill as 'the solution' is not the right thing to do, in my opinion.

I'll start a separate thread.

Currently playing a newly created wizard, the only problem I see is that before you have meditate (which I still don't have, you're not a wizard but a gimped warrior.
Even when sleeping, all your spells does not comes back in one game day (at level so you're casting from time to time, but nothing significant.
And with the 2.5 modifier to HP, you can't even dream to kill anything your level with your spells if you don't sleep for 2h (real life hours) and gets all your spells back.

It's even more true because you don't have access to your level 2 spells which gimps you even more (and won't have access to them before a long time as it's nearly impossible to be join any wizard's guild before level 15/20 and with loads of help or being in the known of games shortcuts).

At higher level, spell regeneration works just fine with the meditate skill as it is. No need to change something that works I think.

I would see a few solutions for this,
- Give meditate far before level 14 (level 5 would be fine I think) : That is the easiest solution.
- Change the starting zone to add support for wizards (low level wands, potions, special rooms that makes you gain spells faster (room restricted meditate)) : That is the long tedious needing a lot of work solution.

Once a wizard reach level 14, all those concern about spell regeneration dissipates so the real problem lies between level 1 to level 13.

For cleric, it is less of a problem because they rely far less on spells than wizard due to their higher armor, BAB, l33tness

So in short:
I think meditate just works fine and no need to change a working system.
However Wizards needs to have access to some form of quicker spell regeneration or additional means of damage dealing before level 14.

Brar

If I remembet right, you can already snag meditate at lvl 9 if you have enough xp.

Orplar wrote:If I remembet right, you can already snag meditate at lvl 9 if you have enough xp.

You can train it but not use it if I'm note mistaken..I will tell you when my wizard reach level 9

You can train AND use it at level 9, but bear in mind that the cost for training it is far far higher then if it's trained at a higher level.

Oh well, it's even less a problem then, make it from level 1 to 8 so in essence, our "problem" would be on 8 levels... I think a few simple fully charge wand of acid splash or ray of frost would do the trick in fact for one to go from 1 to 8 and zap a wand instead of a staff which is more wizardlike in essence

Granted new characters need more love and starting areas needs to be redone to give more support and less mindless bashing, all of them from WD to Skullport (but I think it's already in the doing, only that it takes time ...)

Brar

note for self: tell Raona that her team need to edit the Train help file

Brar wrote:note for self: tell Raona that her team need to edit the Train help file

Code: Select all

You can only train skills that are within 5 levels of your 'skills' list
level limit, which appears in (parentheses) after the name of the skill.  For
instance, if you type skills and see that you can learn second attack at
level 20, the earliest you can start training this skill is at level 15, but
you won't be able to actually *use* it until you reach level 20.

Helpfile updated to reflect comments made above. The staff was debating whether it was the helpfile or the code that was off, but for now we'll assume the helpfile. Er...looks like Brar beat me to it! Thanks Brar, you are awesome.

Err..I did nothing, but yeah I'm awesome.

Back to the subject at hand.

After much thinking, I think giving meditate at level 1 is a bad idea...

Instead, why not put more work and focus on the alternative way to casts spells?
Wands, scrolls, potions..

I think it will add more to the game to add emphasis on those than adding meditate at low level.

Brar