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Use Magic Device
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:45 am
by Tarven
It seems that there's an aspect of this skill that isn't working. My bard is unable to use it to recite scrolls. As per SRD:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/useMagicDevice.htm
Though if that's intentional, iz cool. But he's got read magic on when trying this, and still fails.
Re: Use Magic Device
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:11 am
by Raona
Oy, confirmed, though only for some (offensive?) scrolls with a target when the target is specified. There's a skill check against one's Use Magic Device skill, with a failure echo if you fail...but nothing happens if you succeed. With protection spells, as well as AoE spells, everything seems to work as it should. [Sound burst, cone of cold, and Resist Fire worked, but Magic Missile did not.]
There's an additional blocker for thieves, who can't cast Read Magic, they will always get
You need to read a scroll of flying first before trying to recite it!
even with a self-identified (presumably purchased) scroll, unless they have some other potential trick I'm missing.
Re: Use Magic Device
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:37 am
by Lirith
I raised this with Mask when he first implemented the changes for scrolls/read magic. We tested it and my thief couldn't use scrolls at all. I think he's probably forgotten to correct it for their use.
Re: Use Magic Device
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:06 am
by Raona
OK, while we are at it, are there any other known issues with the Use Magic Device implementation? (i.e., can your rogue actually use magic devices with this skill?)
Re: Use Magic Device
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:51 am
by Tarven
Raona wrote:OK, while we are at it, are there any other known issues with the Use Magic Device implementation? (i.e., can your rogue actually use magic devices with this skill?)
Wands and staves work fine for both bard and thief. I'm not sure if there are any other magic items that would have uses that would be restricted by class.
Re: Use Magic Device
Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:39 am
by Raona
Ok, then I've got to flesh out what spell scrolls do not work. Any first-hand experience with any save magic missile? (Please specify if the scroll was reward loot [with just a description, like a ragged scroll] or a sale wand with the spell name in the title [like 'scroll of recall'].) Thanks!
Does it make sense to let (only) thieves (or all rogues) use scrolls without using Read Magic first? Make it part of the Use Magic Device skill to either decipher it per Read Magic, or just use it without "knowing" what it is?
Re: Use Magic Device
Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:12 am
by Tarven
Use Magic Device:
Decipher a Written Spell
This usage works just like deciphering a written spell with the Spellcraft skill, except that the DC is 5 points higher. Deciphering a written spell requires 1 minute of concentration
Spellcraft:
20 + spell level Decipher a written spell (such as a scroll) without using read magic. One try per day. Requires a full-round action.
Normally, this can be attempted 1/day with any given scroll. On FK though it's one shot off. Given the difficulty of raising UMD in the best of times, is there any chance of reducing this difficulty, or allowing scrolls to be rechecked somehow? Though again, in theory, a thief could find someone to brew them potions of read magic.
Also, bought a 'scroll of detect hidden' from a shop, and was unable to use this without first deciphering, as well. I'll have to give it some more inspection with my bards to see what they can or can't use (since they have read magic).
Re: Use Magic Device
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:31 am
by Grenwyn
It's been a while since this was brought up, but my thief still seems unable to use scrolls.
I get the echo "You need to read an ancient scroll first before trying to recite it!" if the scroll has not been examined.
If I examine it, I get some weird results:
Code: Select all
You need to decipher the 5 spell in an ancient scroll first before trying to recite it!
You need to decipher the ?
? ???????4?????;n ????~`?
? ?
? ??X?;n ?CB? spell in an ancient scroll first before trying to recite it!
You need to decipher the ??J?꿱???4????꿸?J0)?XFi????{꿬B??? spell in an ancient
scroll first before trying to recite it!
I think the MUD is swearing at me.
Re: Use Magic Device
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:36 am
by Raona
Grenwyn wrote:It's been a while since this was brought up, but my thief still seems unable to use scrolls.
I get the echo "You need to read an ancient scroll first before trying to recite it!" if the scroll has not been examined.
If I examine it, I get some weird results:
Code: Select all
You need to decipher the 5 spell in an ancient scroll first before trying to recite it!
You need to decipher the ?
? ???????4?????;n ????~`?
? ?
? ??X?;n ?CB? spell in an ancient scroll first before trying to recite it!
You need to decipher the ??J?꿱???4????꿸?J0)?XFi????{꿬B??? spell in an ancient
scroll first before trying to recite it!
I think the MUD is swearing at me.
Oy, I couldn't reproduce this at first, but after enough effort, I got it to start happening! The funky text is mostly reproducible:
Code: Select all
You need to decipher the pcÄ¿Ð3B·ôB·, spell in a scroll of identification first before trying to recite it!
You need to decipher the pcÄ¿Ð3B·ôB·, spell in a scroll of identification first before trying to recite it!
You need to decipher the pcÄ¿Ð3B·ôB·, spell in a scroll of identification first before trying to recite it!
You need to decipher the pcÄ¿Ð3B·ôB·, spell in a scroll of identification first before trying to recite it!
You need to decipher the °3B·¸aÄ¿ spell in a gold-edged scroll first before trying to recite it!
You need to decipher the °3B· spell in a gold-edged scroll first before trying to recite it!
You need to decipher the °3B· spell in a gold-edged scroll first before trying to recite it!
I believe it should be the case that "known" scrolls should be useable with only a Use Magic Device check, not the very challenging spellcraft check as well. Ideally, known scrolls could have the knowledge passed to a rogue.
Using a bard song I was able to get a thief to know what is on a scroll. Then they got unlimited tries to attempt to release the magic, in one case when they succeeded it backfired while in the others it did nothing (and the scroll remained). [The same scroll worked as it should have when held by a wizard.] We have some work to do on this one.
Re: Use Magic Device
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:20 pm
by Grenwyn
Additional observations:
RMI scrolls and scribed scrolls seem to yield different failure messages even when they contain identical spells.
RMI scrolls give the error "You fail to release the magical energy contained in an ancient scroll."
Scribed scrolls give the error "This scroll is too complex for you to understand."
Re: Use Magic Device
Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:32 pm
by Althasizor
Is there anything more on this? As of now, with read magic affecting the thief in question, even 0th level spells cannot be recited.
Re: Use Magic Device
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:50 pm
by Natasha
I think Thieves should never be able to use scrolls per 3.5 - even if they find a way to read the scroll.
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Scrolls
On a weirder note, Natasha had some trouble using a wand recently and it seemed like it was checking against use magic device. Do wizards need use magic device to use things like wands? I've never had trouble with a staff or rod
Re: Use Magic Device
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:54 am
by Althasizor
As per 3.5, rogues are indeed able to use scrolls - Even if they couldn't typically 'Read Magic'(Another use of Use Magic Device):
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/useMagicDevice.htm
Use Magic Device DCs
...
Use a scroll 20 + caster level
The same skill does also account for wand use, listed as a flat DC 20.