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I was wondering if something could be added to the helpfile to indicate that this is an insta death kind of spell

Isn't that what drowning implies? Death.

I agree that it should be noted that it is an "instant death" spell. I also think the PvP helpfile should note that "instant death" type spells have no place in stun/spar situations... I could've swore that was in a helpfile somewhere but for the life of me I can't find it anymore.

Er...so all the insta-death spells should have something saying that they are such, and should not be used with non-lethal combatmodes?

I'm pretty sure this is already noted somewhere, because I remember reading it the other day. But I can't find it now.

It seems reasonable to note this on each spell that's affected... does anyone have a list?

I had a list at one time, but that was back when I was Julthain... unfortunately that list is long gone, but if there is to be a note, it should state the mechanics of the save.

Ex. Save vs. fortitude would be the roll to avoid death by Cloudkill:

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Cloudkill

This post lists PK policies:

http://www.forgottenkingdoms.org//board ... =16&t=8307

Can instant-death spells be used in PKills?
* Yes, but roleplay must happen before the fight as in all other instances.
* Instant-death spells should not be used in killmodes other than spar or kill; it isn't instant-stun.

Ahh... so I read it on the forum rather than a helpfile. I'd like to see the helpfile updated to show that these spells don't fit into "non-lethal" combat and, perhaps more relevant to OP's original point, a list of these insta-kill spells. I can only think of the three off-hand but I'm sure there are more...

-phantasmal killer
-wail of the banshee
-drown

I have added a note (pending approval) to KILLMODE to say this. However, I'm unsure about SPAR. If you are sparring with someone for a PK then wish to kill them, would it not be appropriate to change to KILL before casting the spell? Therefore making these spells only appropriate in KILLMODE KILL.

Edit: actually, after thinking about it, the appropriate killmodes for these seem to be KILL and NOFIGHT.

Killmode Kill should be the only lethal form of combat. If you're sparring and you decide your character would kill in response to something the other character did, you should change to killmode kill before casting one-such spell elsewise they'll just be stunned and that isn't how the spell works. As a player I'd also like to point out that I feel it would be in poor taste not to tell your opponent that you're changing killmode before doing that...

Alitar wrote:If you're sparring and you decide your character would kill in response to something the other character did, you should change to killmode kill before casting one-such spell elsewise they'll just be stunned and that isn't how the spell works.

I agree with this. However, NOFIGHT also allows lethal attacks, and would be more appropriate than SPAR if two PCs planned to kill each other. I see no reason not to allow instant-kill spells in this killmode.

However, this is different from what the PK policy says. Perhaps the policy should just have 'spar' changed to 'nofight'?

There are far more than three. Some are just very rare or do not have trainers yet.

Off the top of my head:

Circle of Death
Finger of Death
Powerword: Kill
Disintegrate
Enervation

Rhangalas wrote: Enervation

Enervation is not a instant death spell, it is a spell that causes the target to suffer negative levels.

What about Slay Living, Weird, and Destruction?

I've honestly never really cared what spells are used in combat as long as there is RP before hand. Also if I am in a situation where my character might die it was because I chose to be there instead of running so if I die it is my own fault. No need to introduce OOC comments to a PK.

Also I just wanted a note added to the help file that explained it was a death spell. The help file to me makes it out to be a damage over time spell, kind of like you would find if you went below water.

Kaaurk wrote:I've honestly never really cared what spells are used in combat as long as there is RP before hand.

The issue is that use of instant-kill spells outside of KILL or SPAR is currently forbidden by policy.

Kaaurk wrote:Also I just wanted a note added to the help file that explained it was a death spell.

I have updated the help file (pending approval) to make it clear that the target dies instantly.

I did not including the saving throw type required because other instant-kill spells don't list it. However, they probably should (for many it's either trivially available from SRD, or easy to guess.)

Edit: I have also updated MASS DROWN in a similar fashion.

I was referring to a PK situation.

Kaaurk wrote:I was referring to a PK situation.

Yes, so was I. Using these spells during PK is not allowed unless your killmode is spar or kill.

I believe he is referring to the killmode kill.

Also, I don't believe you are correct in your quoting. All spells are allowed as stated here, no matter the situation, or the killmode. Helpfile PK:

c. Conduct. Combat begins when any of the involved PCs cast any spell
..(on themself or another involved PC) or one PC attacks any of the others.
..(PCs initiate melee combat using the MURDER command instead of KILL.)
..Combat involves only PCs already present or those nearby (3 room radius wilderness,
..10 room radious in an area, any distance via instant-travel spells such as "Teleport"),
..but you may not use OOC means (e.g. AOL Instant Messenger, Yahoo Messenger) to
..contact additional help. There is no limit on PCs involved in a PvP situation
..provided that they abide these rules. All combat maneuvers (skills such as disarm,
..bash, stun, etc.) and all spells are allowed, however, you may only use the time-stop
..spell to prepare yourself, not to attack.

Well, the policy doesn't say it can't be used, only what killmodes it's allowed in... perhaps this needs to be clarified, since the two seems to contradict each other.