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I got a Pilum for saving the Dung Sweeper in Rat Hill. I examined it at it is a polearm.

It is a masterwork pilum in the polearms category of weapons.
It can be picked up, held, held in both hands.
It cannot be worn with any other armour.
It is medium in size and would fit any body type.
You see nothing special.

Yet when I fight with it.... It crushes..

A medium dummy evades your crushing attack.
You weave out of the way of a medium dummy's punch.
Your crush beats a medium dummy to a bloody pulp.
a medium dummy has several minor wounds.
A medium dummy's punch powerfully beats your abdomen.
Your crush deftly shreds a medium dummy's chest.
a medium dummy is bleeding from several injuries.
You weave out of the way of a medium dummy's punch.
Your crush beats a medium dummy to a bloody pulp.
a medium dummy has several traumatic wounds.
You weave out of the way of a medium dummy's punch.
Your crush violently shreds a medium dummy's chest.
A medium dummy's punches you violently in your chest.
Your crush beats a medium dummy to a bloody pulp.

But stated in dfifrent websites it should be a PIERCING weapon.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilum

https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve ... Pilum.html

This more than likely has more to do with the fact that a pila is classed as a thrown projectile in game terms. Weapon displays piercing damage when thrown, but crushing damage in melee (in +ranged or -ranged modes).

I did some research and found dubious reports of pilum being used in melee combat (as opposed to being thrown); I wonder if the citation from De Re Militari might suggest that the shaft of the weapon is too malleable (because it is described as deforming and thus becoming lodged in enemy shields) and therefore that, if pressed, the weapon's wooden haft would be its more effective end in sustained melee.

To wit, despite the historical facts, I can't disagree that piercing melee damage is logical in the context of this game and will mention it to Mask. Moving this to suggestions.

This is just my historical findings, if anyone is interested, it doesn't really influence my feelings about what makes sense for the weapons in FK...

The Wikipedia article on pilum cites the Siege of Alessia as a document example of them being used in hand-to-hand combat. Caesar's Commentaries on the Gallic Wars VII, LXII only says that "the first ranks fell transfixed by the javelins of the Romans"; it does not suggest that they were thrust rather than being thrown. Further, the author of the Wikipedia article on Alessia cannot read Roman numerals and translated LXII as 72.

The citation from Plutarch's Lives implies melee use, but not that they did more than thrust the weapons and discard them. I don't believe that this really supports the idea of using the pila as one might use a spear.

I'm on my phone, so I can't quote very well, but...

https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve ... Pilum.html

Seventh paragraph cites it being used as a hand-to-hand weapon, as a thrusting weapon, as well as it being used as an anti-cavalry barrier.

Edited to add:

I've found the same information on multiple other pages, but all say it wasn't particularly common. Based on the description of their use, I would personally suggest allowing them, but giving them extremely low durability.

I agree with you, Xryon, on your recommended application for pilum here in the game.

From a historical standpoint, however; note that the seventh paragraph on the Princeton site cites the Wikipedia article as its source (first problem) and then see my notes about the Wikipedia article above. To sum it up, the Wikipedia infers a lot from first hand sources (Caesar and Plutarch) rather than taking their words at face value and I believe that the facts, when logically assembled, don't add up. i.e. if a pila were meant to bend upon piercing an enemy shield in order to encumber it then it must not have been designed for sustained melee combat (which would have required that it be relatively sturdy).

The pilum is, to my knowledge, the typical and traditional thrown spear of the roman legionnaire. It was thrown from a distance of between 10-20 feet. The pilum is quite differently constructed than a common spear, which is, by far more practical and much more easy to carry. The pila were constructed to be heavy throwing weapons and quite unhandy and of little use outside of combat situations. Unilke spears, their shafts are not completely of wood but partly of metal and partly of wood. The metal is a rather soft iron so that, when thrown, the pilum smacks into the enemy's shield and bends. That has the use of 1. Rendering the shield of the enemy completely useless and 2. Keeping the enemy from using the pilum and throwing it back. It has to be said, though that pila seem to not have been meant to bent within the roman republic. Plutarch adds a sidenote in his writings about Marius about changes to the pila when combating the Cimbri. There seems to have been no such modified pila in Caesar's De bello Gallico. The advantages of a straight pilum are it's effects when having pierced and crashed through the shield the person behind the shield will be hit for the hole created by the tip is bigger than the diameter of the shaft. The pila are the weapon for the first round of attack, after the throwing of the pila, the legionnaires charge with their bladed weapons. The pila were not used often, usually just a single time in combat as the soft nature of the iron they were crafted with made numerous repairs impossible. Pila are extremely unhandy in close combat and a specialist weapon. It has to be said though, that the pilum, well thrown, is quite an impressive destructive weapon. The pilum should not be mistaken with the spiculum or the pilum murale.

Cheers.

Being part of an reenactment group for ancient romans, I can fully agree with Larethiel. A great explanation of the weapon.
Though of course, as the humble woman I am representing I have nothing to do with the soldiers and their weapons and rather sit at "home" (also known as our camp) and spin like a good woman should. And occasionally those "barbarians" steal me to their camp because our soldiers are unable to protect us... but that's another story.

As for the weapon being used in melee combat.. well, I guess you could do that.. just like you could use arrows in close combat. Possible, but probably not very effective.
I'd say a soldier would rather drop it and draw his sword instead of fighting in close combat with a pilum, but if used in melee, crushing could even describe the way it is used, I guess.

You are most correct, sir. Based on what I read, I definitely can't see it being a sustainable melee weapon. Along the lines of what the various articles said, however, would it be a better solution to allow for a single use (as it bends) with an applied negative modifier to shield efficiency upon hit? I'm not sure what a reasonable effect against unshielded enemies would be (maybe a negative to AC for X rounds due to it bending and getting in the way would still work) but it would be cool to see more mundane weapons have advantages.