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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:59 pm
by Gwain
I read in the Faiths and Pantheons book that the rabid follower were actually frowned apon by Ilmater and though that sect exists they arre not granted any faith spells or powers far as I know.

Which brings me to my question, how many ilmarites want to fight for the sake of fighting. I have always thought they would cringe at the fought of inflicting pain without due reason. Though I could be wrong.

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:16 pm
by Gwain
Would an Ilmarite spar then? or would he scorn that? I would suppose it would depend on a person by person basis.

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:42 pm
by Stayne
The Ilmaterian faith is indeed full of contradictory behaviour, though I believe this could be said of almost all faiths. Faith, like all things is interpreted by the individual, and the words of dieties can oft be taken in many ways. There always tends to be extremists at both ends of the spectrum (ie. Those who apply the tennants of a faith as hard and fast rules, to the other end where there are those who use them to guide their actions or as a reassurance that perhaps their actions are guided), as well as being many who fall anywhere in between.

Though I do not think Ilmaterian are one of the hardest (personal opinion only)faiths to roleplay as their church seems fairly well structered, and as always strutuce allows us guidlines to direct our RP. (Unlikes other dieties like Shar who faithful seem to exist in more an emotional state than in one of pre-defined worship)

I have not seen Ilmaterians in any books, though I confess I do not read much (Many authors in FR I find weak at best). The best guide I found to their faith is the Information laid forth in the Faith and Panthenons guide. Below is the Dogma, which is possibly the most important things, as well as a few choice sentences that I found meaningful.

Dogma -
Help all who hurt, no matter who they are. The truly holy take on the suffering of others. If you suffer in his name, Ilmater is there to support you. Stick to your cause if it is right, whatever the pain or peril. There is no shame in a meaningful death. Stand up to all tyrants, and allow no injustice to go unchallenged. Emphasize the spiritual nature of life over the existence of the material body.

Extracts -
"Although he is slow to anger, the wrath of the Broken Diety is terrible in the face of extreme cruelty"
"He takes great care to reassure and protect children and young creatures, and he takes exceptional offense at those who would hamr them"
"Those who cannot comprehend why anyone would willing submit to the torments and cruelties that Ilmater's faithful seem to welcome, misunderstand the church."
"They have no annuals holidays but can occasionally call for a Pleas of Rest. This allows him or her a tenday of respite from Ilmater's dictates to prevent emotional exhaustion or allow the cleric to do something Ilmater would normally frown upon"
"The most important ritual is the Turning. It is the duty of every cleric of Ilmater to convince the dying to turn to Ilmater for comfort and recieve his blessing before they expire (NB This does change a persons faith). As the veneration of Ilmater grows, even in death, his healing powers become stronger"
"They see life as sacred and suffering as holy, but they do not stand in the way of others desires or condemn them for their chosen path."

Hopefully the above is helpfull information to those who don't have and I am sorry it cannot be more complete.

I can see many interpretations of the faith, all of which are valid. A quick example would be to take the line from the dogma tha reads "Stand up to all tyrants". Many could take this as being open, vocal and even confronting. I personally do not for I temper it with the final extract I listed - "They do not stand in the way of others desires or condemn them for their chosen path". This is where I see one of the divisions in the faith. The clergy, while taking a dim view of the tyrant, would seek to help the suffering (even if that is the tyrant themselves), where as the knightly orders may or some of the monk orders would help the suffering by standing in the way of those who would cause that suffering (this does not neccessarily mean attacking them, but we are only human ;)). An then some of an extreme view, may take it upon themselves to remove the tyrant completely. While the later is a possible choice, I personally feel that Ilmater's reason for being in the Triad is so that those of Tyr and Torm can do what he does not.
Gwain wrote:Would an Ilmarite spar then? or would he scorn that? I would suppose it would depend on a person by person basis.
It is a tough question, and the person by person basis is the best answer. Those of the clergy whose mission in life is to tend the sick or the dying, to provide food for the needy and a palce of rest for the weary, would probably have little use for martial skills. The monks and the knights, and even those of the clergy who meet suffering by standing between it and its intended would know the value of practicing such skills. I think that they would take the view that anyone who would take the pain of practicing such skills in a spar is holy in that they are suffering so that those of Ilmater may do their jobs better.
Whichever way they go, I do not believe any member would scorn anyone sparing, for it is not their place to judge others.

While the dogma and extracts are quoted, the rest is just my opinion. Hope it helps
-Stayne

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 12:40 am
by Isaldur
Ilmater, like any other faith differs due to interpretation. Like any faith Ilmater has many different factions, all who worship him differently.

The following information I'm going to display is gathered from a variety of sources, be in novels such as the Drizz't books, The Rage's small portion with a Paladin of Ilmater, the mention of Ilmateri Monk fighting styles in the Black Bouquet or source books such as Faiths and Pantheons, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, and the brand new Players Guide to Faerun.

Ilmater's faith is splintered between various groups, the most notable of them being..

The Clergy. Often dressed plainly except for their skullcaps, the clergy of Ilmater are what make people especially believe he is the god of the common man. Ilmater's clergy care for others and try to ease the suffering of as many as they can.

The Monks. Ilmater has two orders of monks, the foremost and largest being the Broken Ones. The Broken Ones act purely in this name, and while they train in combat and fighting arts, they do not go out of their way just to start fights. Like any stereotypical follower of Ilmater, the Broken Ones defend those who suffer at the hands of others. The second order associated with Ilmater are the Yellow Rose. The Order of the Yellow Rose, also known as the disciples of Saint Sollars is a solitary monestary in the Earthspur Mountains of Damara and they are not what you would expect from followers of Ilmater. More akin to Paladins of Ilmater, the Yellow Rose is known for it's loyalty to it's allies and destruction of it's enemies. They are greatly respected on matters of truth and diplomacy and often travel with Paladins from the Order of the Golden Cup.

Paladins of Ilmater. Ilmater almost rivals Tyr in having many different Orders of Paladins, but all of them like all Paladins are militant and strive to destroy evil. In an Ilmateri's case, especially evil that causes great suffering to the innocent. Paladins of Ilmater however would rather stop and heal the dying and wounded than forfiet those lives in pursuit of an enemy.

The misguided. Those who believe followers of Ilmater suffer because they enjoy it, the most notorious being the Weeping Friars from the R.A. Salvatore novels.

While a follower of Ilmater can be a pacifist or actively against those who are evil and cause suffering on others, they are all bound to the faith of Ilmater for important reasons. These reasons are the basis of what Ilmater teaches in his dogma, be it easing the suffering of others, standing up to injustice, or sacrificing yourself in martyrdom to save someone. Those who follow Ilmater need to remember that he is a lawful good deity, and frowns upon chaotic and evil actions because those are what hurt and cause suffering the most.