Zhentil Keep magical post fees

[Vaemar]

- pay the fee (10 platinum for a mail box, 3 platinum for a letter)

What is the point for the magical post to be so expensive in Zhentil Keep?

Right now every single office of the magical post is cheaper than that, namely Waterdeep, Skullport and Menzo. These three offices have all the same price 5 platinum for the box and 1 platinum for the letter.

I find nonsensical that the fees are higher in Zhentil Keep, a surface city after all, than in Skullport and Menzoberranzan.

This is also particularly bad, because, unlike Skullport and Menzo, someone who is in the Keep may be tempted to go to send mail in Waterdeep to spare a few platinums, thus calling away characters/players from a place that *absolutely* doesn't need that.

I propose that the magical post fees are made the same all over the game, thus lowering the price for the Keep to 5 platinum for a box and 1 platinum for a letter, the same used in every other office.

As a side proposal, it would also be nice to let anybody buy parchment from the library of the Ebon Thorn, again in the Keep, and not just guilded bards. Or at least add parchments to some other merchant in the Keep.

[Skylar]

Alternative hometowns can be more difficult to live in than others. Zhentil Keep Magical Post is a place where the monstrous races can go to send mail, meaning it provides a service that the Waterdeep one doesn't, I don't see why they can't put a premium on that. Skullport and Menzo are hard to reach places after all.

[Vaemar]

I disagree and I find that your reasoning stems from a series of wrong assumptions:

a) Zhentil Keep only occasionally hosts monstrous races, and apart for the very few orcs and goblins, the majority of the "monsters" who dwell in the Keep can also send magical post in Waterdeep. In fact I did so on my halfdrow and tiefling more than once. One just needs to keep a low profile and either hide or use invisiblity. These races are already required to go there for business and quests.

b) Zhentil Keep is not just home to monstrous races, there are a lot of humans and halfelves there. I would even dare say that they are actually the majority, so the idea that Zhentil Keep provides services to monsters is even more detached from reality.

c) Assuming that the magical post is a hometown service is again wrong. In my opinion it is a general service for characters, which is not used in the time in which one is around their hometown, but generally much later in a character's life.

d) Zhentil Keep is not just a hometown, but it is right now the center of non-good roleplay, so the reference to hometowns is also quite off-topic. In this case, it goes against the very role of the settlement in game, which should be to encourage a certain type of characters to hang out there, and not the contrary.

e) Also the assumptions that everything should be easier in Waterdeep than in other hometowns is wrong. Some services are certainly more accessible there, but there are others which are not. I will not say which ones, but I assure you there are more than a few.

f) Skullport and Menzoberranzan are not really that hard to reach, especially for characters with those hometowns, and those cities are already meant to be harder to play in, unlike the Keep, which is a simple surface city like Shadowdale or Silverymoon.

g) There is no plausible explanation for the fees to be higher on the surface than in the Underdark, with all the troubles the magical post will face down there.

h) Hence if there is not a "premium" down there, neither there should be one on the surface.

edit: modified to amend a pair of sentences which rereading actually sounded unintentionally too salty and thus not constructive.

[Skylar]

No reason to become rude or standoffish Vaemar. Neither of us know the builder's intention for setting it as it is, we can only speculate.

g) There is no plausible explanation for the fees to be higher on the surface than in the Underdark, with all the troubles the magical post will face down there.

I've given you a plausible explanation. You've broken it down, presuming a character/player who can navigate the Underdark with ease, or who has the tools to sneak through Waterdeep. I stand by the explanation offered. They offer a service, a /legal/ option for monstrous races that is far easier than the Underdark, and reserve the right to bill what they want for it. If it's no big deal to get to the Underdark or Waterdeep, why is this an issue at all? I agree that drawing RP away from ZK is something to consider avoiding, ZK struggles as it is already to be a proper hub for the evil community, but I don't think it is fair to call a builder's designs 'nonsensical' when making sense of it really isn't that difficult, and when the subject matter is not a particularly troublesome setback.

[Vaemar]

No reason to become rude or standoffish Vaemar.

I am sorry if you felt my tone was rude, it was absolutely not my intention. I think I may have overreacted a little, and I kindly ask for understanding, but on the other hand, if I have to be sincere, I beg you to understand that the tone of your first post appeared to me extremely unconsctructive and thus quite rude.

As for your explanation, I appreciate you expanded on it, but its flaws remain. Namely:

- As far as price is concerned there is no difference between a legal option and an illegal option. If a halfdrow can send mail in Waterdeep wearing a big cloak, what makes the difference here is the price, and the annoyance to the player, not the connotation.

- The design makes indeed little sense now, as there are many setting elements which make beyond any reasonable doubt an Underdark post service more difficult to access. Without even thinking too deeply: faerzress make teleport magics difficult, Underdark denizens make land transport harder. So, no, there is no plausible way for the post to cost less there than on the surface. Once ago, when there wasn't magical post in Menzo, and Skullport was even harder to access, maybe things were different. This is not the case anymore.

- The reason why this is an issue is because it draws people away from the Keep, which is, like it or not (and believe me I am the first who would prefer it to be elsewhere) the center of non-good roleplay in the game. And it certainly could use more people, not having people drawn away from it. I am glad you agree on this point.

[Skylar]

I've spent the majority of a 2.2k hr toon based out of ZK, I love the place and cherish the RP found there dearly, and for much of that time it was far less active than it is now. I think it's important to grow the place's footprint, but I have characters who's only option is to go there for mailing and I really don't think such a mountain orc/goblin/etc should be tromping into Waterdeep unless they're suitably polymorphed, which as a fighter they can't be. That said, I think dropping the price for most, then throwing up a crude/prejudiced sign saying something akin to "Double price for Greenskins and freaks" and charging exactly that, might be a flavoured and appropriate answer to the issue you've been faced with.

[Vaemar]

Now, this is what I call constructive feedback.

Whom I care most for here, in any case, are the humans and the more normal fellows and for those that will work. The others would hang out in the Keep regardless. So this would achieve at least the main aim of the proposal.

There is however still an issue, even with higher prices for freaks. In fact, the magical post is often used also for submission to contests and other things. Making submission to contests so expensive selectively for characters who hang in the Keep, is not really that good, in light of its role as a roleplay hub.

Besides, goblins can have Skullport hometown, so they are middleway in comparison to orcs, as they can send mail from there quite cheaply if they have that hometown.

So the ones who have increased fees are just orcs, who are the most penalyzed race of the game. And of all things, perhaps they could be spared this.

Last but not least the same prices are simpler and thus preferrable. Having an increased tax in money on what is an IC method of communication that should be encouraged over OOC means is not very helpful for anybody. Already now letters are rarely sent, even with their tiny cost, due to the competition of OOC means and tells. So making them more taxing, for anybody, is not a good thing in my humble opinion.

We have to keep in mind that a cost of an item in game corresponds to a cost in time for the player to get the coin. And while for some things this may be acceptable, see cost of certain components in the Underdark, or even items like the ink pot, but for such a general service I believe it should be avoided.

In particular when this stacks in bulk, should one of these characters send more than one letter or box.