Called shot redux

[Kregor]

Suggestion for the addition of the missing archery feat to FK, in a balanced way:

I know this was brought up already in a previous thread:
http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/board/ ... php?t=1154

But this thread degraded into a debate about wizards having too many death spells. And those on-topic tended to go down the path of such a feat being an insta-death shot, which it is not in tabletop.

Called Shot
Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +1
Grants the ability to make a potentially disabling attack against an opponent's arms or legs at a -4 penalty

Translating into FK terms
Prerequisite of precise shot.
For game effects, -4 penalty equivalent to specify a "called" shot (while the limb could probably not actually be specified in code just a ramdom limb if successful, "Yeah, I meat to hit that one!"). example "callshot south <target>" or "callshot <target>" if you have point blank shot as well. Successful hitroll results in one of the target's limbs going to critical, redering it unusable until healed naturally or otherwise, if such an effect is possible, and an appropriate damroll bonus as a result.

For balance, limit it to only being possible to do once on the same target (like bash), after which the target is aware enough to avoid it. Note that this attack does not target the head, only a chance of temporary handicapping one limb of your opponent.

[Talamar]

I personally think this is unneccesary, and unbalancing to the say the least.

Even backstab isn't this powerful. Taking out one of your opponents limbs, with only a -4 chance to hit? Even if you restrict it to "not the head" you have a very decent chance of losing an arm out of this. To illustrate that, 1 shot has allowed a bow user, to disable half of a thief or fighters attacks, as they now can't use their off hand weapon. Let's say you hit the shield arm of a priest. Well now they can't cast spells without removing their weapon. Same thing for a wizard, now they have to remove their weapon to cast.

To me, this feat would just turn the bow into a PK and twink weapon. You'd get people training it, and carrying a bow and arrows, so they could get their one called shot in, and then go in and finish the job dual wielding bastard swords or whatever.

I just don't feel this feat is something that should be implimented, at least with this affect.

[Kregor]

To me, this feat would just turn the bow into a PK and twink weapon. You'd get people training it, and carrying a bow and arrows, so they could get their one called shot in, and then go in and finish the job dual wielding bastard swords or whatever.

Except that I have been told before, by more than one person, that it is not acceptabe RP to switch weapons mid-fight. If this is incorrect or I misunderstood the context, please let me know.

Realize also, the feat would of course be subject to skill vs. skill checks... a successful deflect arrow or dodge check by the opponent would waste the called shot against that opponent, for example. And as someone who plays a char who fights close quarters with combatmode +ranged on occaision, I have noted that even the ogre mobs seem to have a pretty good rank in deflecting arrows and dodge, even point blank. So, the -4 is not the only factor as to whether the shot actually contacts vs. an opposing skill or feat.

Consider also, comparing it to a thief's backstab, that many of these same mobs would be in fact dead after a successful backstab by a decently skilled thief, not just handicapped. And as far as PvP, I have personally experienced a body area going critical following a backstab.

I personally see that archery is very underutilized in FK. Even many rangers shun the bow as a primary weapon. But then, the command to fire from a distance is a little cumbersome to type out for each single shot, trainers who will train to a decent ranking in bows and crossbows are few and hard to find, and when you do find them, it is expensive to train at the best ones, compared to other weapons (and rightly so, archery is a skill of great precision). Putting a prerequisite of precise shot also means that you would have to spend a total of three feat points to get called shot (point blank first, then precise shot, then called shot). I question how many warriors would invest the coin, exp, training up time, and feat points just to have this feat with a decent archery skill to make it count. More likely, this feat would be taken by chars who already invest much into archery as an RP.

[Kregor]

To me, this feat would just turn the bow into a PK and twink weapon. You'd get people training it, and carrying a bow and arrows, so they could get their one called shot in, and then go in and finish the job dual wielding bastard swords or whatever.

Except that I have been told before, by more than one person, that it is not acceptabe RP to switch weapons mid-fight. If this is incorrect or I misunderstood the context, please let me know.

Realize also, the feat would of course be subject to skill vs. skill checks... a successful deflect arrow or dodge check by the opponent would waste the called shot against that opponent, for example. And as someone who plays a char who fights close quarters with combatmode +ranged on occaision, I have noted that even the ogre mobs seem to have a pretty good rank in deflecting arrows and dodge, even point blank. So, the -4 is not the only factor as to whether the shot actually contacts vs. an opposing skill or feat.

Consider also, comparing it to a thief's backstab, that many of these same mobs would be in fact dead after a successful backstab by a decently skilled thief, not just handicapped. And as far as PvP, I have personally experienced a body area going critical following a backstab.

I personally see that archery is very underutilized in FK. Even many rangers shun the bow as a primary weapon. But then, the command to fire from a distance is a little cumbersome to type out for each single shot, trainers who will train to a decent ranking in bows and crossbows are few and hard to find, and when you do find them, it is expensive to train at the best ones, compared to other weapons (and rightly so, archery is a skill of great precision). Putting a prerequisite of precise shot also means that you would have to spend a total of three feat points to get called shot (point blank first, then precise shot, then called shot). I question how many warriors would invest the coin, exp, training up time, and feat points just to have this feat with a decent archery skill to make it effective enough to be a twink tool. More likely, this feat would be taken by chars who already invest much into archery as an RP.

[Balek]

I'm not sure about the concept of switching weapons midfight being poor RP. It doesn't seem to me like it would be a terribly difficult thing to drop a bow and draw a sword hanging on your belt. I think it would be poor to dig a weapon out of a bag or pack, but a sheathed weapon is readily accessible.

I'm fairly certain the switching armor in the middle of a fight is always poor form. It takes a significant amount of effort, time, and concentration to remove armor and wear some more, and I don't think it would be possible in a fight.


As for called shot...imagine a situation in which four rangers were in Ardeep and a Malarite was nearby. All four of them shoot the Malarite with a called shot from an adjacent room (the code would not consider this all one fight, and would allow four separate called shots, since no actual fight is going on). In fact, a single ranger would be able to do this. Four called shots from an adjacent room and the enemy has no limbs left. I think that if this skill were to be implimented, it would need serious refinement first.

[Argentia]

A called shot from a room away? Seems like that would be a bit unfair and sometimes too difficult to achieve. Maybe an echo, "You are too far away to do that" and only allow called shot in close quarters?

[Alaudrien]

Hrm I was thinking even though I am not a fan of this idea. But I think of elven bow men disabling there opponents who charge at them and who gets through to attack.

[Kregor]

Well, if the disabling of limbs doesn't go over, what if for FK it were treated as a ranged arterial strike? The effects wouldn't stack, so you lose the threat of four archers taking out all four limbs of an mob or NPC/PC opponent, you still only get the one attempt per opponent, which could still be dodged, or deflected by the opponent, and the prerequisites would still require the spending of two additional feat points to get the prerequisite feats.

What I am pressing for is a feat that truly distinguishes someone as a specialized archer, in the same way we have other feats to distinguish other styles of fighting. Thieves can learn to backstab and circle stab, then cause even more damage adding the aterial strike feat, shield users can smack their opponent down and beat on them unopposed for a round with a successful bash, then improve it with improved bash, dual wielders can hack away and do more damage than any other fighting style in the game and then add the twin sword feat to make dual wielding even more deadly.

I think archers need at least one distinguishing, Robin-Hood-splitting-the-sherrif's-arrow-down-the-middle feat that truly shows off the skill of someone who really wishes to sink four or five of their feat points into archery. There are tabletop feats like called shot and twin arrow that do this.

[Kirkus]

I agree that there needs to be some distinguishing archery feat but this, like others said, would be overpowering. There are a couple of things I would like to point out. First, unless I am mistaken then distance between rooms on the world map is something like 10 MILES between rooms. I have never heard a Robin Hood story where he shoots someone from 10 miles away. Most modern guns can't even shoot that far. I could be wrong about the guns but I am almost certain I am correct about the bows.

What we need to do is find something that can even the score so to speak between bows and most other weapons.

I just had an idea..... I read the Wheel of Time and in one of the books one of the main characters beats 2 of the best trained swordsmen with a staff. Now I don't remember if in game bows defaut to staffs in close combat but that could work. Most rangers and other woodsytype folk would know how to use a staff for fighting.

[Argentia]

While it's a good idea, Kirkus, I think it defeats Kregor's original intentions. He wanted an archer to be distinguished as an archer, not a melee combat master. Rangers can already learn(and potentially GM) staves, and I'm also pretty sure bows default to staves in melee. So essentially they can already do this.

Allow me to again shamelessly plug my idea of not being able to use the called shot skill/feat from a room away. You'd get an echo, "You are too far away to do that" or somesuch. Since you are in the same room, it would automatically initiate combat, so you could only use this skill once per combat.

[Timaeus]

The world map(out of cities) is scaled to about 30 miles per room.

Bows do default to staves in melee if a person does not have the feats and combat modes set to use the bow in melee which is still effective as shooting from a distance and then with other feats there are bonuses to using the bow as well. The feats we have currently for bows apply to all missile weapons: Crossbows, Bows, Thrown Projectiles etc and actually with all the feats taken it makes a character quite specialized with whatever missile weapon they do take as well as better with said missile weapons than someone without any of the feats and capable of some uses for missile weapons not open to someone without any of the feats. And for the arguments that will likely arise about using a bow in melee combat it can be done and pretty sure most everyone has seen it in the LOTR movies.