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Ok, we're clear on the policies with halfdrow and centaurs, but what about gnolls sitting in the Market Square and roaming the streets of Waterdeep?

Am I the only one that thinks that the guards would stab it on sight and citizens would run fleeing and screaming for their lives?

If I'm wrong, please tell me, but it seems a little strange to me.

Surely races such as this would have the same hinderances that orcs, and to a lesser extent, halfdrow have to suffer?

Where are we clear about what races make it into a city and what don't? If I see a halforc, gensai, and centaur running around a city, when do the people say enough is enough?

Halfdrow are subject to the same restrictions as orcs (which is mainly being ignored), theres a thread somewhere about centaurs. My main point is a gnoll is an evil creature with a terrible reputation, the same as an orc, or a drow/halfdrow. People would freak out.

Centaurs and goodly races are a little different, at least in my eyes.

I basically see anything that can be viewed as a monster would be attacked on sight in WD. But instead of attacked on sight since that would be a little unfair, they are kicked out.

A gnoll would be put down by the guards on sight, like a rabid dog..in...the street. Ya. They have a terrible reputation like the drow, but none of the bogey man mystique and reputation, never mind innate spellike abilities and magic resistance. It's more of a savage brute reputation, which is not nearly as scary. Rping a good gnoll would basically be like rping a good drow. In my eyes anyway.

In my own opinion, I would have to say that you need to look at the general characteristics of the Race.

Gnolls - Evil
Goblins - Evil
Orcs - Evil
Tieflings - Evil

These I would guess should be KOS (Kill on Sight) or kept from the city. Being kicked out by the guards I think is a good compromise for IC and OOC policy, as it wouldn't be fun to be killed by guards all the time.

Centaurs - Good
Genasi - Good
Aasimar - Good

These are races that would be allowed into the cities. Now, there a few things here that definitely need to be taken into consideration.
As was mentioned in other threads, Centaurs hate cities, then tolerate Elven cities, as they are their favored trading partners, and centaurs tend to trust elves. Human cities they avoid, unless forced. This can mean by capture/slavery, wounded in dire need of help, or to save a friend or the like.

There's a bit of leeway there, but it's something that definitely need to be thought about before you take your centaur or wemic for that matter, trotting into MS.

Now, for some of the other races, I would allow some consideration personally.

Half orcs for example, aren't always evil. I could see a caravan guard or the like making it into waterdeep. Now, he's going to be harassed, and looked down on, and Gods have mercy if a crime happens that he can be associated with, but that's the brakes.

Half Drow should be almost KOS as well. They are often viewed by people who aren't adventurers or sages as drow. There aren't many that can tell the difference. I could see one getting into a city, but only disguised or some such. Definitely not speaking Darkspeak and showing off their ebony skin tones.

Also, please keep in mind, these are my own opinions, and not neccesarily those of Staff/Immortals.

Something else to take in consideration. People fear things that are different. Many humans fear/hate dwarves, elves, and halflings for this very reason. So imagine the reaction your character would inspire, being half orc, an Air genasi, or a centaur.

Above all, the best thing you can do is really look into the background on your new/exotic character. Read up on them, or ask questions. There are a lot of people willing to give background, to better help you roleplay all the new things that are available in the game now. Take advantage of that, and it will only enrich your rp, and enjoyment, as well as others.

I know I am always willing to answer questions on the races, so if you are curious and would like an opinion, send me an otell, or ask on question for some help. That's what we're here for.

I was reading in the FR monster manual. It had a listing of Gensai. It actually says that Waterdeep is about the only city that will understand them and not kick them out.

But I agree with Mystra. The way that folks have been playing their exotic races is not any different than their other ones. Everybody is cool with them being here and they treat them just the same as anyone. The interaction minuses you get with normal society is the largest minus to your pluses with most of the exotic races.

The MUD established very early that there will be no DRIZZTs in the MUD without approval. You will roleplay your stereotypes accordingly.

Talamar wrote:Half Drow should be almost KOS as well. They are often viewed by people who aren't adventurers or sages as drow. There aren't many that can tell the difference. I could see one getting into a city, but only disguised or some such. Definitely not speaking Darkspeak and showing off their ebony skin tones.

Well, most of the guards seem to be kicking out the halfdrow now, but MS Guard does not. So, as long as the half drow are careful/lucky to avoid guards along the way, they can sit in MS, once again, still chatting it up with the locals, drow appearance and all.

Granted, I saw a good antagonistic RP evolve between an elf and a halfdrow because of one sitting in MS. Good RP between the two, but it wasn't terribly IC for Forgotten Realms for it to be in Waterdeep, IMHO.

And what made it even less IC, once again, IMHO, is the fact that certain Lawful Good players in the square not only have allowed a gnoll and a half-drow in the square unmolested, but actually protected them against other Good players who were antagonizing, or doing otherwise trying to remove these elements from the city.

Would these same chars also make no move against Grafghur if he made it into the city, or say the law protects him as long as he behaves himself? It seems, if the Waterdeep guards would accost these races and throw them out, whatever your own personal ethics of racism and equality may be, if you are LG, and do nothing to remove a race that the guards of a city sieze and throw out, you are, in fact, breaking the laws of Waterdeep.

Perhaps it is just another tweak that needs to be done with MS guard. But really... should we be placing the burden of recoding all the guards and law enforcement mobs for every single evil exotic and goblinoid race on the coding team? Or should we just have a grip of what races would actually be realistically allowed to roam freely in Waterdeep... then as Lawful and/or Good PCs enforce that against said interlopers, and as the players of said races realize that they would never IC make it as far as the Market Square and quit trying.

Let's look at it this way. If a race can't start out in a Lawful Good city, or even in a city at all, there is probably good IC justification to say they would not be well received in these respective environments.

True that kregor! ....but I have also heard of this to...The races who start outside of cities or not in good aligned cities is the trick of this. Some of them have to slip into the city ic or not ic to find a trainer...I think like the thieves guild wouldn't let in a halfdrow unless they proved good that is why I have seen some trying to get into the city..Perhaps putting some quest for halfdrow to become thieves and other such races not allowed in waterdeep in there starting city or somewhere icly that makes since for them to find it...I could see a thieves guild in the orc city where a goblin..and perhaps halfdrow could get into without to much hassling other than what an orc would do normally....A halforc...well them I could seei n waterdeep...I have read some boosk where halforcs look mostly human except huger muscles and sometimes a big nose with some sharp teeth or something of the like. And I believe in a coupel half orcs tend to be mercs thugs...or big bad warrior types..Doesn't waterdeep have some halforc thugs in a couple books cant remember...just some of my opinions I agree with kregor on this immensly!

As I understand, there are other thief guilds on FK, other than the one that is the path of least resistance, in areas that the evil/outcast humanoid races can actually go. These, of course, have to be found ICly, and as I gather, they require RP to enter, rather than an auto quest.

Someone correct me if I am wrong on this?

True I know of one other..but have only seen one member of it on period..and I think it requires you to have already become a thief ..I can't remember if it was that way or not -chuckle-

I personally hate seeing exotic races in Waterdeep that wouldn't be accepted there. I could see a centaur walk through the city and have a million citizens staring at it as it walks by.

Talamar wrote: Gnolls - Evil
Goblins - Evil
Orcs - Evil
Tieflings - Evil

These I would guess should be KOS (Kill on Sight) or kept from the city. Being kicked out by the guards I think is a good compromise for IC and OOC policy, as it wouldn't be fun to be killed by guards all the time.

The exception I could see to this would be a tiefling that does not have any features that would make him stand out, the citizens and guards wouldn't know that it is a tiefling so it wouldn't get a second glance. The same for a genasi.

I have seen some good RP's stem from seeing a exotic race, but I also think that PC's should RP accordingly, if a Genasi or Tiefling LOOKS like a human then they should be regarded as a human (to the 'ordinary' PC/MOB)

According to the monster manuel of FR, there is no getting around the fact a Genasi is a Genasi. Genasi have a unmistakable appeareance and a unavoidable arrogant nature that makes them dislike by almost all humanoids. Same with theifling. And if you want to look like a human, play a human.

I agree, I've had oodles of fun designing a description for my new character. It is interesting and allows me to experiment with creation. Bare in mind though, that though a tiefling will look different somethings are subtle and almost missed by the eye while other tieflings look like wonderous demon princes and princesses. In the ned it's up to how the char is rp'd and how you want it to look.

I believe I read somewhere that tieflings have pointed ears like eleves, and slightly elongated and sharp fangs, etc.

Anyhow, if there is a need to seek out trainers or items in a city, perhaps there should be items (cloaks of disguise, etc.) that hides a character's race from mobs and PCs.

So... as a point of clarification, genasi entering Waterdeep and "Square-sitting" is frowned upon?

According to the Manuel is specifically sites Waterdeep as a place to find such creatures regularly. I think they are playing off the whole Waterdeep city of Wonders type of thing where it has Waterdeep being like a fantastic cosmopolitan city where anything can happen type.

I'd think that air genasi and earth genasi would be accepted in most cities and towns ude to their similarities to humans (save one or two things, or course). Fire and water genasi probably wouldn't be as openly accepted, though especially fire genasi. But then, that's just my opinion.

Micheal wrote:According to the Manuel is specifically sites Waterdeep as a place to find such creatures regularly. I think they are playing off the whole Waterdeep city of Wonders type of thing where it has Waterdeep being like a fantastic cosmopolitan city where anything can happen type.

I agree, Waterdeep is kinda like the New York of the Forgotten Realms, you can find anything and everything there and they are fairly tolerant of strangeness.

Tieflings and genasi I would think would be accepted and merely thought of as freaks, but not kicked out. These races are extremely rare and not everyone is aware of what they are.

Monsters on the other hand are killed on sight because of their well known nature.

Half-drow get the drow type stigma, but im sure if they were careful they could live in the WD crime scene.

In address to Tandria's post, im a bit confused as to why one element would be favored over the other. I would think it would be either all or none as I dont see any specific evil or goodness to fire, earth, water, and air.

Ya know come to think of it...I have read about some drow infiltrating waterdeep...some in an inn albeit they wore cloaks and hoods to hide there faces but the fact is they where there. They didn't get welcome receptions and met atagonist who would just as soon kill them..but also be wary of them if they were scouts for the underdark drow hordes..as I have read about. And drizzt walked openly with alot of hostility he is well known and slowly becoming accepted because of his deeds. but if he wasn't in the company of his friends no one would recognize if it was him or some other drow acting like him. I am sure a halfdrow could survive within waterdeep but not walk so openly in the square. Just not totally sure...as stated above A halfdrow could probably flourish in the crime scene of waterdeep within a thieves guild but out during the day in the open probably wear heavy cloak and hoods to hide her features...could be interesting if a halfdrow rp's well enough they could become known by the guards and not get kicked out everytime but that would be a long and hard rp but im not sure imm call me thinks! well tata