Trample - Mounted Opponents

[Glim]

I wanted to ask, is it correct that two mounted opponents should not bash each other? Since the feat is called trample, technically you cannot trample someone who is not below your mount.

Or would it be based on size? i.e. A horse couldnt bash a horse, but a griffon could bash a horse and a horse could bash a wardog?

[Argentia]

When my horse tramples I imagine that it's rearing up on its hind legs, high into the air, and coming down hard on the opponent. When this happens, the horse, in my mind, would stand high enough that it could come down and trample another horse, or rider, leaving them stunned for a moment. Or perhaps you've rammed the other rider and their horse with your own, leaving them stunned for a moment, possibly causing the rider to go off balance in his or her saddle.

Granted, I've never trampled another mounted warrior, but these are the IC reasonings I can think of. It's fun to use your imagination.

[Glim]

Eh, I try and not bash people if they are mounted against me...

Though, heh, if they do it first, well then, thats a whole nother story.

[Isolrem]

Why would a griffon be able to trample a (war)horse? They are similarly sized, I think.

Personally I agree with Glim that trample should not be allowed against other mounted targets, the point being that trample is actually running over something. What Argentia described, the rearing up and kicking of the horse, would not produce bashing effects. Now if we were going to have a new skill like "horse-kick" that dismounts the target, I'd be all for that.

[Argentia]

You're telling me that if a fully grown horse bred and trained for war raised its hooves and brought them full force down on you, you wouldn't be stunned? o_O I'm not talking about kicking, I'm talking about rearing up and bringing down the horse's hooves onto the rider.

I don't think the size of the MOUNT matters because you are not stunning the mount. You are stunning the rider. While I think the trample feat can be running an opponent over, I do not think it has to be that. The help file says:

Trample Feat
============
This feat trains you in using your mount to knock down opponents. It
allows you to use the bash while mounted.

This feat requires that you know the mount and bash skill and that you know
the mounted combat feat.


So it doesn't say that you must run them over. You could ram into the other rider and smash them with your shield or the hilt of your weapon, too, so long as it stuns them. I think it's open to interpretation, smotes, and personal RP. No need to say "This way is the ONLY way to stun someone while mounted." Meh. Just my opinion, though.

[Andreas]

Warhorses were trained to fight and kill. It's that simple.

Today's modern Friesians, Belgians and Percherons (the largest breed of horse) are decendents of horses bred to do battle. Thankfully, most of the vicious temperment has been removed from the bloodlines (although Friesians can be very high strung and prone to kicking or biting).

Horseback warfare wasn't the neat, stylised joust that usually comes to mind. It was chaotic, messy and painful. Warhorses were trained to charge and knock down their opponents or their opponents' mounts and trample them to death. This was a devastating attack. Even if the horse wasn't knocked down, there was a very good chance that the rider would be thrown or crushed. Shattered legs were a very common injury in mounted combat. Some warhorses were even trained to charge in a head-butting fashion while wearing a spiked chanfron (the piece of armour that protects the horse's head). Their hooves were usually fully shod in steel, not just horseshoes. This made their kicks more deadly and protected their feet. Often times a warhorse would continue to fight after their rider had fallen.

It seems perfectly logical to me for a mounted PC to bash another PC (mounted or not) in simulation of actual mounted combat. The goal is to disable/kill the opponent. If it's a flying mount vs. a non-flying one, then the flying PC certainly has the advantage of being able to "swoop down" upon the non-flying PC.

A few breed statistics:

Registered Friesian stallions must be at least 15.3 hands by the age of four and mares must be at least 14.3 hands. The mares average about 1300 lbs., more for males.

Height: Percherons range in height from 15 to 19 hands high, but the average Percheron stands between 16.2 and 17.3 hands high.

Weight: Percherons can weigh up to 2,700 pounds or more, but average around 2,000 pounds

It [the Belgian] is generally sorrel or chestnut in color, stands just under 17 hands (68 in./170 cm) and weighs over 2,000 pounds (900 kg).

So think of something the size of a compact car running into you at approximately 30 MPH and you'll have an idea of the kind of damage it can do.

[Glim]

Hmm, understandable, then do you think its possible that a horse could bash a griffon? Or a wardog could bash a horse (or griffon)?

Edit: Ive always been under the impression that griffons were large creatures and horses medium and wardogs small.

[Elenthis]

I wanted to add something after seeing that last question.
Did anyone else know that most animals from the weasle family are able to kill other animals up to three times thier size? The mongoose and the wild breed of ferret (the blackfooted ferret) have been known to kill things as large as stray dogs, cats, young pigs and so on. (All HUGE compared to the weasles.)
You see, what they do is called a "weasle war dance" when they are attacked, or while attacking. It is a VERY quick burst of upward motion while an enemy comes in at them. While in the air, they aim thier face downward and thier jaw locks on the back of the enemy. The aim is to crush the spine of the smaller creature, or simply bleed the larger one to death. Once locked on, it isnt easy to throw them.

Well, I guess my point is that anything is possible. A dog, while probably not the best candidate for kicking against a horse, has its own defences that would certainly be able to harass or harm them. Be creative IMO.

~Elenthis.