Roughing Up Thieves

[Amalia]

I've got a comment/question about the severity of the guard (at least in Daggerford, I'm not sure how it is elsewhere). This is in reference to the 'retrieve the hammer' quest-- the thief who has the hammer tries to sell it to the player. I thought, why not 'killmode stun' him, and if the guard comes, explain at the trial. As it turns out, the guard was not so kind as to use stun mode... this seems pretty extreme to me, so I wondered if there might be any chance of changing the guard behavior so they throw people in the slammer for non-capitol infractions, rather than kill them?

[Rhytania]

Assualt is still assualt. Even if you dont try to kill someone but just only want to beat the piss out of them itll still get you in trouble. Boy I wish I had you as a judge, '...but Your Honor, I only clubbed him with the bat just to stun him, not kill him!' Second make sure your config +surrender is toggled so you do not resist when they come to capture you and throw you in the slammer, not fight back, at which point they would fight to kill.

[Amalia]

Aha. That would be the problem I ran into. Thanks.

[Andreas]

I think one of the biggest problems with the justice system is that we try to apply modern ideals to a Medieval-Renaissance setting.

Got caught stealing? They chopped your hand off. Some places were at least kind enough to let you go the first time with only a disfigurement... a notched ear or nose.

Commoners couldn't testify in court. The only testimony given by a commoner that would be accepted in a court of law (presented by an appropriate representative) was that which had been obtained by torture!!

Ordeal by water was a very common means of establishing the truth of an accused criminal. One ordeal was to throw the criminal into a body of water or large tub. If they sank (and drowned) they were telling the truth. If they floated (and lived) they were lying and found guilty! Another ordeal involved plunging a hand into boiling water and swearing to the truth. If the hand blistered badly, they were obviously lying.

Trial by combat was also a widespread custom used to settle a variety of disputes.

Justice was far more superstition and far less investigation back then as opposed to now. People hungered for swift and violent justice and often took matters into their own hands before there could be due process of law. Even those who enforced the law were quick to find a perpetrator (truly guilty or not) and punish them in order to appease the masses.

I think we should all be thankful that the justice code on the game is a lot more lenient than reality for the setting should dictate!

[Amalia]

I'll agree that medieval justice was a thing to be balked at. From what I've read of D&D, though, the setting is not exactly medieval in that sense, at least in "good" cities-- folks who worship gods of Justice and the like see to that. I imagine this was changed to help avoid the frustration of players if they got into a legal mess in a campaign. Now, if FK wants the justice system to be more benighted than it is in most D&D campaigns, that's fine, and I'll be happy to RP along with it-- though I would point out that were that the case, the guard would likely have killed the thief too, for simply being involved in a disturbance in the streets.

On a different note, except in quests where one option is actually said to be consulting the guard (smugglers in Waterdeep), it seems that the guard don't really react to any sort of reports or accusations, unless an immortal happens to be watching (which makes perfect sense, as that would at best be a huge pain to code). That being said, however, it becomes rather more necessary to take matters into one's own hands sometimes-- and 'get hammer' doesn't work if someone else is already holding it.