Forgotten Kingdoms Forums

Being a Drow

I will try and make this a constructive post because i still love being a Drow and in general i think that the situation is improving. I may also ramble a bit please forgive an old and crotchety Drow

It has been 1 year RL since the last major discussion about the Drow role-playing experience / environment. In that time there have been positive and negative things that have happened and in my view pointed up the possibilities and limitations of Drow RP.

Big positive things

We got visited at home by surface side characters! Thanks to the actions of the player of Zarafae the Drow got a visit from some surface siders. This caused a lot of RP and even brought the Matron mothers out to play. It was really good fun and caused a whole load of associated plotting/scheming and general underhandedness amongst the Drow.

Other positives

Some Drow got to visit the surface in an IMM generated role-play . I was not one of them but there exploits filtered back down to Menzo in various ways. I have not heard any real feedback from anyone about whether this will be possible again ?

Ched Nasad is now available as a Drow city though the path is a little hard even for level 40+ characters to negotiate (this is partly because of no high level drow rogues). It has filled in a lot of the high level skills and has really fun stuff for Drow .

In general Menzo and area has had several visits from the fix fairy who has improved various small things all of which help.

Big negative thing

Solaghar decided to move on to another MU* . As a player he has almost single handedly managed to keep the Drow experience going and contributed a lot to the whole game IMHO. He is sorely missed.

other negatives

Removal of recall potions. You may ask why this is a problem, two reasons first it means that non spell casting Drow cannot return to Menzo without getting to either Skullport or Ched nasad once they have got into the undermountain due to a one way portal. Second less people are returning from the surface to Skull port because there is no portal/boat to allow natives of that city back. Therefore less people to play with when you get there.

Things to improve the situation (constructive bit)

Add a message post in Menzo !! and also in Skull port At the moment it is incredibly hard to arrange anything between different Drow or between Drow and Skull port people. Message posts would allow the various characters/groups to post messages about trips to and from Skull port etc. This would also allow the IMMs and matron mothers to post and push the RP along in directions they might want.

Offer the promise of visiting the surface in some way to keep the high level Drow characters active. Because at present once you reach high level there is very little to do. Few characters have the knowledge/ability to reach Skullport and Ched Nasad and they then tend to go idle once they have done this once or twice. However as was proved when the surface siders visited the older Drow are still around and will come out for a good RP. I even saw most of the Matron mothers come out to play which was a definite high point. I am not asking for unrestricted access but some sort of either planned or controlled access that would allow higher level Drow to actually be evil !. We need to plot and scheme different ways to kill elfs etc to actually be proper Drow !. And if there is no way to do this it actually makes being evil quite hard. We need goodies to compare and contrast ourselves to show our essential Drowness . Reversing the example how much fun would a Paladin be in a society made up of Paladins !.

Duranamir (who still loves being a Drow)

Please feel free to comment/disagree.

I started a drow, and then soon stopped. Mainly because whilst it is fun when there are other drow there, even then I kinda think, "Hmm... what would the characters on the surface make of this character." But the problem is you can never actually meet those characters.

I would say maybe the biggest thing to give drow the chance to RP more, would be to lift the restriction that keeps them in the Underdark. Now, I understand that this has been raised several times and was told unequivocably, no. But has it been suggested that the surface be opened to level 40 drow? Or even level 40+ drow with a token from imms?

Similar to a bard academy, but you gain access to the surface if the drow have a "drow token" which shows that they are trusted OOCly not to suddenly turn into Drizzt wannabes. Personally, as a player there is very little I would love more than to have the drow involved in some of the RPs. The idea of walking around a forest and having a drow pop up in the middle of the night would be amazing, scary and bring so much tremendous RP for everyone.

I understand the issue about Drizzt wannabes, and the fact that Mystra doesn't want loads of drow on the surface. But with imms watching to make sure the drow on the surface are well-RPed, would it be so bad?

Just a suggestion.

~Ol

Duranamir, you raise some good points.

Sol's departure was never going to be a good thing, as you said, he did a great deal for the Underdark side of the MUD and was in the process of building most of the areas that were tabled to be brought in.

Having not been around much over the last yr i'm unsure of the current situation, but hopefully that will be changing. My new barracks should be internet enabled, meaning i'll be able to get down there a bit more and maybe we can try and kickstart some life into Menzo. There were some fairly good RPs going on last time I played regularly.

Drow RP has always been hard, but when it's good, it's great.

Hmn, rambling post here, but I guess you know what i'm getting at.

Message posts are a great idea, not keen on Drow getting on the surface with any great frequency. The RP were a lot of the big chars got up there was good, but it kinda just petered out and I recalled back to Menzo after a couple of months of hanging out in the Keep. Generally I don't think it would benefit most drow chars to be able to get there and the negatives of such an opportunity outweigh the benefits in my mind.

E

As stated by Lerytha i personally think that allowing high level Drow to visit the surface would do two things. One give the Drow a valid outlet for there evil tendencies and second give the surface siders something lurking in the dark to fear.

Drow should never be at home on the surface and should not really have any safe port of call. Even the orc camp or Zhentil keep should be considered hostile territory. The only safe place for a Drow is the underdark. As such any surface side visiting Drow should be living in fear of there life if they are detected. For example i personally would fully expect to be hunted by Rangers and good aligned characters from the minute it was known i was on the surface!. Would this not give the good aligned characters some fun too?. And as for going anywhere near any good aligned city that is really asking for trouble!.

One question i would like to ask is now that Tieflings, Orcs and other evil races are allowed on the surface freely why are Drow still being descriminated against? As with these other races Drow require a kismet cost and can only be evil. Why are Drow being judged under different rules to every other race ?. I understand historically that it was easy to create and play Drow and that there were a number of Drizzt wannabees. But in the current situation it requires a significant investment in both Kismet and time to get a Drow character to any kind of reasonable level. And as others have mentioned we are not talking about letting low level Drow out to wander round the surface and drop into the market square. What i think we are asking for is the opportunity for high level Drow to be allowed to visit the surface to actually do the things that Drow are supposed to do.

The aim of every devout Lloth worshipping Drow is to get to the surface and enact the goddess's will. This is not to get friendly with the goodys (Lloth would really not like that unless there was some greater evil plan ). It is to see how Lloths long term aim of dominating the surface can be advanced. This does not entail randomly slaughtering everything they come across and should involve plenty of RP with the other evil groups of the realms.

As far as the background of forgotten realms, Drow are engaged in raiding the surface in several different areas. There are even significant enclaves of surface based Drow in Cormanthor busily taking over the elven court and raiding the dales !. Even in the game there are a number of Drow mobs beneath various areas of the realms. Why not allow real Drow to go where there computer counterparts freely wander. It would be a lot more fun for the good aligned folk of the realms to bump into a real Drow than a computer one .

I understand that being allowed out would be a privilege and that the IMMS would be likely to revoke it if it was misused. But if a clear set of parameters were set then i personally do not see why Drow should be excluded en masse from the surface.

Duranamir

Everything you say is true, pretty much, and i'd actually love to see some sort of option to have a drow enclave on the surface, but it'd have to be inhabited by people that know how to play drow. Not just as you say, running around the surface killing people or treating the Keep or Orc Camp as a home from hom. Raids on the Dales would make for some great ongoing RP.

As I said, the benefits are there, but the potential for abuse and just non-IC behaviour is massive.

*shrug*

E

I've always hate the drow and the surface discussion.

There's a reason drow cost kismet, and have an A-H helpfile and is always said only experienced players should play them -

They are restricted to the areas of the Underdark knowingly upon creation.

That's what makes drow drow, it's why they're not halfdrow or humans, or bunnies.

In the recent past, drow HAVE been let onto the surface, after much persuasion if I recall. And what did that do for the drow playerbase on the whole? It is right back to where it always round abouts, someone suggesting drow go to the surface. I've got two high level drow that I do, admittedly, play rarely. But yet still I've never understood the desire, or reward, of going to the surface. You go up for a surface raid, you're like 3 drow to 20 surfacers raiding, where is the fun there? You go just to chill, and are reminded just how much surfacers like to kill those little invading drow mobs? I just don't get the whole thing, personally. :x

-D

Just my two cents here...

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
*Spoiler for those who haven't read the books. BeWaRe!*
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

In the Drizzt trillogy, his first time on the surface was in a raiding party on an Elven village.

They were equal parts in awe and fear of the surface.

IF PCs agreed to RP accordingly, could there possibly be a random NPC Elven village that Elven and Good PCs could go to an defend while PC and maybe some NPCs could attack?

Just my thought...

Mele wrote:I've always hate the drow and the surface discussion.

There's a reason drow cost kismet, and have an A-H helpfile and is always said only experienced players should play them -

They are restricted to the areas of the Underdark knowingly upon creation.

That's what makes drow drow, it's why they're not halfdrow or humans, or bunnies.

In the recent past, drow HAVE been let onto the surface, after much persuasion if I recall. And what did that do for the drow playerbase on the whole? It is right back to where it always round abouts, someone suggesting drow go to the surface. I've got two high level drow that I do, admittedly, play rarely. But yet still I've never understood the desire, or reward, of going to the surface. You go up for a surface raid, you're like 3 drow to 20 surfacers raiding, where is the fun there? You go just to chill, and are reminded just how much surfacers like to kill those little invading drow mobs? I just don't get the whole thing, personally.

-D

I raised the original post to have exactly this kind of discusion. I would love to know why people have stopped playing high level Drow characters and whether any one else has any constructive things that would help the overall game and bring back some of these experienced players to playing there Drow.

And as far as costing Kismet Tielfings cost kismet too but do not get restricted by code to only staying in the underdark. I would like to challenge the reasoning that Drow characters are inherently more likley to misbehave ? Surely it is the player and not the character that would be at fault.

And yes i knowingly created my several Drow characters with the limitations you describe and i still play them and will whether anyone gets to go to the surface or not. In fact some of them would never want to go to the surface at all.

As far as a background reason for restricting Drow to the underdark i cannot think of one. The restriction is purely OOC and based on past behaviour of players who may not even be playing here any more.

One of the great drivers of Drow society is the wish to recover what has been taken from them by the perfidious elves . Which is the surface that they beleive is there birth right as such they should want to take back the surface from those who currently hold it. However Drow are not Orcs and you dont always have to use a sword to gain what they wish. Devious manuvering and background maniplutation is an equally valid way of advanicing Lloths schemes. And frankly more fun to RP than just raiding the surface villages (though that could be fun too )

Duranamir

My point in mentioning the kismet cost is it exists so that only experienced players, who know about said restrictions are able to make drow. :) They don't cost because of the area restriction, they cost to make sure brand new people do not delve into the challenge rp which is the area restriction, being a drow in general, etc. :)

I think the best reason to explain is that why are drow still being punished for something none of the current long term players have done? I can only think of two times that drow/surface rp had gone awry and that was a long long time ago and both isolated situations, but yet the current drow population is still being punished for it. What Im trying to say is that first off to have any success with a drow and get him to 40+ is no easy feat, add in the kismet cost and your pretty much cant use any of the newb excuses if you mess up. Drow rpers are definitely not newbs as the kismet alone guarantees it. And yes the policy is that there can be no Drizzt clones, but honestly, has anyone ever seen one? Not from my time in the Underdark. And I can feel the pain that all the dedicated drow rpers have as to not having anyone to rp with. If High level 40+ Drow where allowed to have a way onto the surface then what harm as been done? Allow them to have a settlement in Cormanther would it really hurt anyone? The Drow know the chances they take with being on the surface, if they die, so be it. If others die to a drow, thats life. There are plenty of times where mortal enemies cross each other on the road or in a wilderness room and more oft than not its good rp that insues, and not a PK fest. I dunno. Im all in favor for at least giving something to the drow community for their loyalty of sticking around if not for anything else. Imagine playing the mud and never being allowed to leave Westgate...or Zhentil, after a while it just starts to seem a bit rediculous.

Ok, first... the fact that there is no connection for the drow between the Underdark and the surface is not any kind of punishment or repraisal for some past misdeeds.

The initial topic is "Drow should be able to reach the surface." My counter-point is "What would the mud gain overall by allowing drow to the surface?" Below are my thoughts in relation to to that question.

1 - Roleplay?

First, I want to distinguish between two kinds of roleplay: (a) roleplay between drow, and (b) roleplay between drow and non-drow. Opening a way to the surface will not help (a). Inter-drow roleplay should be centered on the drow way of life, and that happens down there. So... let's talk about (b).

I base my opinion on what I have read of drow in the novels and what has been said about drow in FR resources (well, those I know, at least). Drow get to the surface to raid villages mostly. Those raids have two goals: take slaves down to the Underground, or slay surface-dwellers (mostly elves) in the name of Lloth. Drow (as a rule - I'm not talking of rogue drow and exiles here) do not ally with surface-dwellers; they might accept some traders into their cities, but they will never consider a non-drow as an ally or even as an equal.

That, to me, shows that the roleplay between drow and non-drow is limited to: taking slaves and slaying in the name of Lloth. Slave roleplay can be fun, but it should be an exception (as in: special imm-run roleplay), not something happening often. And slaying... well, that sure is IC, but I do not think it works with the standards of FK. So... neither of those two things (taking slaves and slaying) should - in my opinion - happen on a regular basis.

Sure... there might be some roleplay now and then that do not reduce to simple slave-taking or pkilling... but they would be the exception once again, not the rule. They would, in my opinion, be as rare as Drizzt clones amongst the drow. And if they are common, that's not true to the drow. Unlike evil surface-dwellers and tieflings, who can trick (or not) others into thinking they are not inherently evil, and who would most likely associate with allies, drow would only associate with other drow... and that kind of roleplay is better done down there.

A last point - to conclude this part about roleplay - concerns the other type of roleplay I mentionned above: traders. This kind of roleplay can already happen. Surface-dwellers and drow can meet up in Skullport, or even in the lower reaches of Undermountain. Sure, it takes some quests for the surface-dwellers to get there, but those quests are far from difficult if they are motivated and gather up a group. So... trader roleplay is already possible.

2 - Access to the surface in itself

Then... if the mud would not gain anything related to roleplay by allowing the drow to reach the surface, what else? The other possible "gain" would be to allow drow to visit the surface areas.

Should drow visit cities? I would think not. Even evil cities. Should drow visit some training areas on the surface? Yes, some might be IC... but those would be very few. Should drow peruse the quest areas on the surface? For the majority of them, no... the people giving out the quest would not seek help from a drow.

As pointed out in many posts above, drow shouldn't feel "at home" or even "at ease" on the surface. That means that exploring the surface is not something drow would/should do.

So... here again, nothing gained for the mud by allowing drow to the surface.

3 - Fun for drow player

I'll concede this point. Some players have spent a huge amount of hours into their drow, and have done all they can to sustain some sort of roleplay in the Underdark. They might gain in skills and - to a very limited amount (at least if they are faithful to drow ways of life) - in roleplay, but not much. As noted above, most surface trainers and quest givers would not deal with drow ICly.

So... what to do?

I can feel for those who invested time and kismet into drow characters. If it was not for them, I would follow the following logic.

Drow don't add much (if anything) to the mud. We do not have a large enough player base to sustain drow. If we had some 60 regular players, there might be more (let's say 6) drow online most of the time, and they could have roleplays faithful to the drow ways of life (either between themselves, or with traders in Undermountain/Skullport, or with imm-run roleplays about slaves and so on).

Currently, I feel that the drow option take away from the game, by driving players able to roleplay evil correctly to the Underdark, while the mud as a whole would gain more if they would play evil surface dwellers who can - and WOULD, ICly - interact with others. Now, the logical conclusion would be to just remove drow as an option at character creation.

Now... where am I wrong?

I wouldn't say you are wrong anywhere Dalvyn, though I would hate to see drow removed as even with the low player base as it stands I (and others) have some awesome fun down there =)

I would love to know why people have stopped playing high level Drow characters and whether any one else has any constructive things that would help the overall game and bring back some of these experienced players to playing there Drow.

I have a level 40 drow i don't play anymore, simply because there are not enough drows around (and even not enough players around to play on drow regularly), so i prefer to concentrate my efforts to bring some rp to the surface. My drow will wait for a while, there is not much thing to do about player base but wait.

From my point of view, a drow, even at the surface, will have a very limited interaction with other PC (by his race). And one player playing a surface drow is one less surface PC. I don't think we are enough now (at least at most of my play time) to spread our RP efforts in different races that can nearly not interact.

Eltsac

Ok, first... the fact that there is no connection for the drow between the Underdark and the surface is not any kind of punishment or repraisal for some past misdeeds.

Sorry Dal. I only came to the conclusion that Drow where kept held under thumb becuase of actions of players in the past, after reading these a while back, that is always why I thought the policy was in place:

Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 5:30 am Post subject:
Help drow alignment policy

If we catch anyone trying to make a drizzt character from the drow or half drow the character will be deleted, and kismet will NOT be refunded.

As stated above, that is why the drow are confined below surface after the constant abuse of this by players.

We have a very low tolerance of the issue.

Sharni

And this one:

I do not plan on allowing the drow to go to the surface outside of imm run roleplays. It was abused when we allowed it before.

There are more areas being worked on in the underdark, and we have provided Skullport to allow for interaction between surface dwellers and underdark dwellers, and there is plans to increase the size of Skullport 3fold.

If you want more available to the drow, then please contact the builders admins with an area proposal.

Sharni

Hmmm ok, you got me, there. I do not remember the details of all the posts Sharni wrote.

What I meant is that punishment is not one of the reasons why a connection from Menzo to the surface is not added currently. That is, the drow are not punished as a whole because of the past mistakes of a few, but because of the reasons I outlined above.

How about making it easier for surfacers to get down into the Underdark?

As it is now, to get to Skullport, you need to either go through the entire Undermount or have a recall potion and have SP as your hometown.

I'm not really sure how this works code-wise, but it's my understanding that Skullport and all the rest of the Underdark is tagged as astral (no teleport).

Now, as far as I know, this no teleport enchantment in FR only extends as far as Halaster's Undermountain does, and not in all of the Underdark. Of course, I understand that in order to keep people from teleporting down into Menzo, it extends all the way there on FK.

Wouldn't it be possible though, to allow teleportation into Skullport, to benefit roleplay?

Nooo. We can't have it easier to get people into Skullport. OOC, its one of those pivotal moments my character is aiming for. It may never happen, but by all the deities it is going to be pondered a lot. And to think I might be able to just get there with the help of a little bitty spell is horrible. (Sorry, don't mean to demean teleport, there). I know what you mean, Tortus. It should make sense. Easier to get to Skullport = more RP for drow. Buuut... going to Skullport should be something special. Not very often you reach the Underdark.

I did have a sudden brainstorm today, though. When all the new RP is finished with, maybe we could have an imm-sponsored "Drow Week", where everyone is encouraged to log onto drow characters, and imms will help them by being part of mobs, having House intrigues, maybe a massive drow raid on an elven settlement somewhere pulling in the whole mud into one of those massive battles I've always wanted to see.

Maybe we could have a drow week every three months, to promite MUD unity? That way, surfacers could meet drow, and have meaningful RPs based on combating the influence of a certain drow, who they know has great power and would otherwise be able to cause them great harm on their next raid.

It wouldn't be much, but it would, once every few months connected both parts of the MUD together.

Any ideas of whether that sounds good or not?

~Ol

I can understand why Drow are restricted from access to the surface and unfortunatley i have to agree with most of Dalvyns post in that with the current player base it is very hard to support a valid Drow enclave seperate from the rest of the game. Which to me is an argument for not having such a huge seperation.

As i have made clear i am personally not in favour of unlimited access to the surface. Seeing Drow commonly would remove some of the mystique and might lead to the problems mentioned previously. In the end the Drows home is the Underdark (at least until we rule the whole world). I just think that as in the background Drow should reach the surface sometimes to let the world know we are here and spark some storys .

I actually think that Drow could add quite a lot to the role-play environment in FR certainly in the books they are one of the classic villains and add a wonderful element of menace. Would it not be fun for the surface siders to occasionly meet Drow going about there nefarious plans ?. And it is far more fun to meet a PC than a compter driven MOB.

I know that IC Drow have few reasons for interacting with Good players. But they do have IC reasons for interacting with the evil side they may despise the other races but will quite willingly use them for there own purposes. Even a priestess of Lloth could see the point of manipulating for example the Zhentarim into persecuting elfs or acting as suppliers of slaves.

And any argument about Drow not being played properly could also equally be applied to every other evil race. For example what reason do Orcs have for interacting with other races ? Yet they do not have anything like the same restrictions.

What to do ?

Even with the current limitations in place there are several things that i think could be done to help the situation.

As i have suggested one of the main problems is that Drow can not send notes to each other IC. If we had message posts we could use them to organize our own RP's around trips to Skull port, Ched Nasad and schedule meetings with Surface side traders.

Skullport is currently the only place that Drow can reach potential contacts from the surface however in almost all cases these are newly generated characters who might or might not return. The difficulty of return to Skullport for residents is currently very high since the limitation of the use of recall magics. Personally i think that there should be route for residents of Skullport to return home relaivley easily. They might then spend more time in Skull port. Skullport itself is still relativley unfinished though this is something that i am certainly willing to help fix.

It would also be nice if the Matron mothers came out to play a bit more. Whenever they turn up they certainly spark good RP but that is not that frequently. Because of there position they could easily start various storys. If we had an IC message post they could also post messages to there house members to spark RP’s even when they were not logged on. And as for Jarlaxle i have never seen him !.

Drow week a nice idea as i said in my opening post some of the most fun we Drow had recently was whena group of Surface siders came down to see us. It caused tons of RP and even caused the Matron mothers to come out and play . And this was caused by one player !.

All it really takes is some story hooks to be planted that involve both sides. For example of some ideas. Good players trying to rescue someone from Menzo though they had better be stealthy and get a native guide !. A specific mission for the Zhentarim to setup a slave route to Menzo to make money. Or for example a quest to recover some lost artifact from deep in the underdark.

And missions in the other direction for example one of the matron mothers has a desire for Cherrys, it would not do to dissapoint her !. The reverse of setting up the trade route to Zhentil keep. The possibilty of Lloths faith quests involving the surface
could also be fun.

These are just some ideas of the top of my head. I am sure there are many more that would interest various different players and cause interaction between the two sides. I do not even think that most of them would even require an IMM to run just the motivation and a bit of communication.

Duranamir the Drow (and proud of it).[/b]

I can understand why Drow are restricted from access to the surface and unfortunatley i have to agree with most of Dalvyns post in that with the current player base it is very hard to support a valid Drow enclave seperate from the rest of the game. Which to me is an argument for not having such a huge seperation.

As i have made clear i am personally not in favour of unlimited access to the surface. Seeing Drow commonly would remove some of the mystique and might lead to the problems mentioned previously. In the end the Drows home is the Underdark (at least until we rule the whole world). I just think that as in the background Drow should reach the surface sometimes to let the world know we are here and spark some storys .

I actually think that Drow could add quite a lot to the role-play environment in FR certainly in the books they are one of the classic villains and add a wonderful element of menace. Would it not be fun for the surface siders to occasionly meet Drow going about there nefarious plans ?. And it is far more fun to meet a PC than a compter driven MOB.

I know that IC Drow have few reasons for interacting with Good players. But they do have IC reasons for interacting with the evil side they may despise the other races but will quite willingly use them for there own purposes. Even a priestess of Lloth could see the point of manipulating for example the Zhentarim into persecuting elfs or acting as suppliers of slaves.

And any argument about Drow not being played properly could also equally be applied to every other evil race. For example what reason do Orcs have for interacting with other races ? Yet they do not have anything like the same restrictions.

What to do ?

Even with the current limitations in place there are several things that i think could be done to help the situation.

As i have suggested one of the main problems is that Drow can not send notes to each other IC. If we had message posts we could use them to organize our own RP's around trips to Skull port, Ched Nasad and schedule meetings with Surface side traders.

Skullport is currently the only place that Drow can reach potential contacts from the surface however in almost all cases these are newly generated characters who might or might not return. The difficulty of return to Skullport for residents is currently very high since the limitation of the use of recall magics. Personally i think that there should be route for residents of Skullport to return home relaivley easily. They might then spend more time in Skull port. Skullport itself is still relativley unfinished though this is something that i am certainly willing to help fix.

It would also be nice if the Matron mothers came out to play a bit more. Whenever they turn up they certainly spark good RP but that is not that frequently. Because of there position they could easily start various storys. If we had an IC message post they could also post messages to there house members to spark RP’s even when they were not logged on. And as for Jarlaxle i have never seen him !.

Drow week a nice idea as i said in my opening post some of the most fun we Drow had recently was whena group of Surface siders came down to see us. It caused tons of RP and even caused the Matron mothers to come out and play . And this was caused by one player !.

All it really takes is some story hooks to be planted that involve both sides. For example of some ideas. Good players trying to rescue someone from Menzo though they had better be stealthy and get a native guide !. A specific mission for the Zhentarim to setup a slave route to Menzo to make money. Or for example a quest to recover some lost artifact from deep in the underdark.

And missions in the other direction for example one of the matron mothers has a desire for Cherrys, it would not do to dissapoint her !. The reverse of setting up the trade route to Zhentil keep. The possibilty of Lloths faith quests involving the surface
could also be fun.

These are just some ideas of the top of my head. I am sure there are many more that would interest various different players and cause interaction between the two sides. I do not even think that most of them would even require an IMM to run just the motivation and a bit of communication.

Duranamir the Drow (and proud of it).[/b]

Well, I agree 100% with Dalvyn.
I was one of those that wanted the reclusiveness of drow when menzo was brought in, my reasons at that moment was that I don't like pk at all and drow meeting any other races or going to the surface means pk.

Drows don't go to the surface but followers of Vhaerun, Elistrae and renegades (and we don't have any of those in the mud). They fear and are raised to fear the sun, being told since their first year that the sun is pure evil and equal to death.
Yes, such band as Jarlaxle's or some renegade group could see to make ties with the Zentharim, not Menzo and even less not any house.
Of course, it is not unheard of some unique individuals (ussualy mage male) who have access to some kind of surface stuff from traders in Skullport and such cities, but it's very rare, only done by the most powerful of mages (ie Faceless being the only known person to have a simple non magic mirror made of simple glass in whole Menzo).
They already are at war with everything in the Underdark, and hates even more anything on the surfaces. Any male whispering of perhaps wanting to go to the surface would be change to drider on sight, and female would just not even think of it.

That's my two cents,
Brar