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Sitting here looking over my spell list, I see control undead and turn undead. Turn undead as a natural ability and control as a need-to-be-trained ability. Now, I always thought evil priest had a natural ability to control undead, at least to a certain extent. Not too clear on the 3E rules on this little area, but I was curious if this was being considered or not?

N.R.

Yes these are 'natural' abilities in D&D but it was decided that it was easier to keep them as spells. As such, they need to be trained like other spells.

That is all I wished to know, thank you....

N.R.

Ok along the same lines, evil controls and godd turns, right?
So why do some evils have turn? Or even more queer just turn and no control?

Aside from this, I am happy to know that druids have finnaly can't use turn/control. Thats one mystery solved...

Control and turning are along the same ability lines. Evil priests have this ability simply because it is just the same as controling. Most of the time, goodly faith see controlling undead as bad or offensive, which is why some of those faiths don't. At least, thats what I always thought....

N.R.

Priest(Paladins too) are an extention of the their god on the mortal realm and only through there god do they recieve any form of power, from bless to harm, all are forms of a divine nature manifesting through the priest.(paladin) eg Never read the books about the time of trouble, but I doubt any of the priest had their prays/spells answerd when all their gods were mortal.

I'm putting all the evil god on the in the same boat when I say this. Evil does not want to destroy evil out right, much like the good side. Since all/most undead are considered evil, wouldn't a priest of good want to destroy and a priest of evil want to presurve, and use for his own. It maybe that its not as clear cut as this. But shouldn't this be as clear as black and whiteone group(good) having turn and the other(evil) having control.

Oh one way to make this clearer, the way I see it. Consider turn and control the same action all dependant on the nature of the god good vs evil. So you're basically casting the same spell but with one of the two variant results in accordance to your faith.

I would have to disagree, on the question of faiths and their reaction to undead....

Given that there are six different alignments to consider and some twenty-eight different faiths with their own particualr agenda and foibles, I would say that there is every reason for some faiths to have both spells, some faiths to have one or the other and potentially there may even be a faith that would have neither.

I am True-Neutral... I would use whichever was appropriate to the situation
I am a priest of Kelemvor... I would never control undead they are anathema to me always to be destroyed
I am a Cyricist... I would control undead to gain an advantage over another

I think you see what I'm getting at

I would love to see control undead fully available, but i agree that it should be limitted faith to faith. I dont think alignment should affect it as much as faiths. Im sure a few evil faiths would be capable and maybe even some neutral faiths. I think if it was just glanced down the list of gods it could be easily set from god to god as most the other prayers are.

ryanC

It should be dependent apon the diety. It the 2nd ED rules for FR it specificially said that priests of Umberlee only deal with drowned dead no others. They even had a special spell called "Speak with drowned dead"

Maybe I didn't make myself clear the first or second time... So the third time is the charm... I hope.

It really doesn't matter the individuals alignment since its a power granted by the god. So for all intents and purposes a lawful good priest of Cyric(I know it would not happen) would still only be allowed control undead cause that is the power that Cyric has granted to his priests. Kelemvor would want you to turn them cause he want you to give the udead their final rest. Silvanus/chautnea/Mielikki and all the other nature gods don't grant that power, even to good/evil druids let alone the true neutrals. So from those that grant the powers to turn and control, you can define those gods as clearly as black and white, good or evil. Good having you turn the undead and evil controling it, no matter the PC alignment. So why do some evil gods have turn instead of control?