Forgotten Kingdoms Forums

As a wizard, I notice something rather inconvenient: every time I get in a fight, after getting hit two or three times, my clothes fall off in scraps. As a result, my character has taken to stripping before a battle, because she's pretty pragmatic and doesn't want to have to go buy all new clothes-- it's not like silks are going to stop blades anyhow. But it's still raises a lot of eyebrows.

I've made a practice of standing in the back when partied, but unless I'm invisible, mobs still pick me often enough, and in the time it takes my noble comrades to rescue me, my clothes get torn to shreds.

I think it would be awfully nice to create a spell that would prevent clothing-- anything that doesn't act as armor at all-- from being torn up in battle. It costs very little to repair clothing, if it does survive a battle, so it wouldn't be unbalancing if that were all you could enchant with such a spell. As far as cinematics, it could be a simple case of the clothing weaving back together immediately upon being hit.

I know there's a spell out there somewhere to repair items, but even so, I can't see casting that in battle to rescue my dress when I could instead be casting something nasty at the enemy.

You mean a cantrip like..ghostly clothes! They are there..you cant see through them but! You blades and such pass right through them? Reminds me of that spell I cant recall the name..but metal weapons do not harm the person effected by it? Steel blood or something

There are many battle affecting spells that can save the wizards, stone skin, mirror image, etc. Along with spells that can increase the strength of their clothing. Also in game their are quests im sure that provide magical clothing for wizards that will not scrap that easily.

Good suggestions Japcil. Still, the concept sounds interesting. Maybe something like "ironweave" that prevents the clothes from taking damage. I'm not a code guy so I'm not sure how something like that might change the damage YOU take. I don't think that part should change.

Actually, while wearing stone skin and stone body...your clothes still seem to get damaged. I think that might be a bug as well.

I've noticed that too-- I always figured those spells affected your skin, so your clothes still got the full beating.

On the subject of special clothes, I can see that being helpful, but it seems to me that then every wizard would be wearing the same clothes-- which seems a bit quirky, to say the least. It's not a big thing, but I would still love to see it.

Yep, I just realized that thanks to Japcil

Making spells to render armour invincible or more resistant might be tough, because that would involve modifying the combat code itself and adding a new flag to clothes that would indicate if they are resistant or not.

It would be possible though - and relatively easy - to add variations on the "make whole" spell though.

Examples could include a spell that would repair only items made of silk or wool. Then maybe a second spell that would repair only items made of leather or hide in addition to silk/wool. And then a third spell that would repair objects made of metal in addition to the previous ones. Maybe something like:

level 2 - mend cloth
level 4 - mend leather
level 6 - mend metal
level 8 - mend all

Those spells would replace "make whole".

I assume they would still be transmutation (or whatever category make whole currently is), but could "mend cloth" and maybe "mend leather" be level 1 so that any wizard could repair their clothes?

Right. They would most likely be Transmutation (or perhaps Conjuration, depending on how you see them: do they change the object or do they create new matter to "fill in the holes").

Actually, in response to the original post, silk CAN stop blades. Historically, silk has been used to make armor, though while it doesn't necessarily aleviate the blunt impact of the blow, 3 or 4 layers of silk will protect from nearly all lacerations. Taking this one step further, currently a lot of military body armor is made from Kevlar. Kevlar is cloth that, like silk, is increadibly strong and can stop small arms fire (Yes, I know it also incorporates a ceramic plate, but even without the plate it will still stop small rounds). Even multiple layers of silk will stop some small rounds.

That said, these armors do not restrict movement like leathers or worse would. Could it be considered to make a few items that look like clothing, but are coded as a weak armor that would not inhibit casting? I think that it makes IC sense as silk is not restrictive but it resistant to damage if made right. You could still require that at least one point in armor proficiency be taken to use the armor and it doesn't really have to protect the wearer all that much, it would just help this issue without having to code new spells (though I do really like that idea).

What do others think?

If it's just about the fact that clothing tears up during combat, perhaps we could just turn clothing into another item type (like ITEM_CLOTHING), and then, it would not only be excluded from any armor calculations (since it's worth nothing) and also be out of the way of being shredded after a couple rounds in combat.

Just another thought. Of course, leave it to me to think up a suggestion that would result in 1000's of objects in all the areas having to be changed

Kregor wrote: Just another thought. Of course, leave it to me to think up a suggestion that would result in 1000's of objects in all the areas having to be changed

I was going to say... wouldn't each item of clothing need to be changed?

I'm up for the work!

Kregor wrote:If it's just about the fact that clothing tears up during combat, perhaps we could just turn clothing into another item type (like ITEM_CLOTHING), and then, it would not only be excluded from any armor calculations (since it's worth nothing) and also be out of the way of being shredded after a couple rounds in combat.

Just another thought. Of course, leave it to me to think up a suggestion that would result in 1000's of objects in all the areas having to be changed

What if you have a magical piece of clothing? When it's changed, don't you have a non-damage item that still confers the enchantment's benefits? I guess it wouldn't be any different from the non-damage magical plate armor that's out there for fighters and priests (except that it wouldn't confer any armor bonuses, as that does), but it does seem a bit odd.

Actually, that change might not require to have the areas modified. And it could be part of the combat system change.

It would be possible to make it so that worn items (be they of type "armour" or of another type - clothes are currently coded as "armour"), do not damage if they do not improve the Armour Class.

After all, we already have it so that non-armour items (rings, bracelets, packs, ...) do not get damage in battle.

It might actually be a good idea to make it so that heavier armour pieces are damaged more often and cloth less often. That would give some work to the smiths. And I'm not talking about the average chainmail or non-magical platemail that gets damaged from time to time, I'm mostly talking about the magical items that never get damaged.

The bad side, obviously, would be that the spells I suggested above, would not be neded anymore. They actually looked like nice additions. I like adding spells that are not yet another "take 3d6 damage, you monster".

Dalvyn wrote:It might actually be a good idea to make it so that heavier armour pieces are damaged more often and cloth less often. That would give some work to the smiths. And I'm not talking about the average chainmail or non-magical platemail that gets damaged from time to time, I'm mostly talking about the magical items that never get damaged.

Im curious about this... why?

Dalvyn wrote:The bad side, obviously, would be that the spells I suggested above, would not be neded anymore. They actually looked like nice additions. I like adding spells that are not yet another "take 3d6 damage, you monster".

The spells were a great idea and maybe one could be added just for equipment that normal tailors cant repair (kinda an all purpose thing), but I think, after reading all of this, that adding 4 new spells at different levels would be more just an alternative to a tailor, leading to basically the same thing just with less spell slots for other spells and without all the walking, instead of an improvement.

Personally i think the repair spell idea is the better one. For several reasons.

First, if someone hits you with a sword and you are wearing clothes i would expect the clothes to be damaged. With the same being true for all armours which are not significantly tougher than what they are being hit with. There maybe some argument about blunt weapons not damaging clothes but sharp ones certainly should.

Second, I like the idea of spells to repair armours being availabe as it would lead to more interaction with the other PC's rather than just running to a shop to get your armour fixed.

Third, As it is mages who mostly fight in cloth armour allowing them to repair them in the field should encourage them to use cloth rather than heavier armours that currently last longer.

Duranamir

Glim wrote:The spells were a great idea and maybe one could be added just for equipment that normal tailors cant repair (kinda an all purpose thing), but I think, after reading all of this, that adding 4 new spells at different levels would be more just an alternative to a tailor, leading to basically the same thing just with less spell slots for other spells and without all the walking, instead of an improvement.

So, giving make whole to classes other than priests might be good?

Personally, I like the idea of a very low level (1-2, preferably 1 so all wizards can learn it) spell that can repair cloth (and cloth only). Maybe one with no component or a component that doesn't get used up. That was wizards will be encouraged to wear cloth. Then there could be higher level spells (transmutation, conjuration) that would repair items of other materials. It would be nice to have a very high level one that can repair magical items (spellpouches made of "unknown" and the like), since finding repairers for certain items can be difficult.

I make no issue of the fact that in realistic battle, clothing would get torn to smithereens. It would, obviously, happen-- I'm just saying that for the sake of convenience I'd be very eager to suspend disbelief in this case.

A low level spell to repair cloth would be a big step in the right direction, but I do find two slightly problematic aspects to this: first, and by far the bigger of the two, I generally lose a few pieces of clothing completely in the space of fighting one monster (or one room's worth of monsters) even if I'm partied. If the spell can't repair scrapped clothes, wizards still end up naked, and if it can, they still end up naked for a shorter amount of time while the battle rages-- how undignified! I'd like to beg the "fantastical setting" point here and note that I know of no wizards in fiction who get beaten down to their skivvies at all, much less on a regular basis.

The second is that mages who wear more than pants and a shirt would probably be filling up all their first-level spell slots with repair spells rather than such spells as are the trademark of both young and experienced wizards (like identify-- if it's low level like I think it is-- and magic missile). This would especially be an issue for the young wizards who'd end up having the majority of their spells be repair spells if they wanted to keep their clothes intact. If such a repair spell affected all one's clothing, that would counteract this problem at least, but I'm not sure that's code-friendly.

That said, with all the stuff in game that does get damaged, I'm all about having those repair spells instated.

Amalia wrote:If the spell can't repair scrapped clothes, wizards still end up naked, and if it can, they still end up naked for a shorter amount of time while the battle rages-- how undignified!

Happened all the time to Glim, just imagine a young little pantless gnome running about casting spells against a kobold. Pretty scary, isnt it?

Amalia wrote:The second is that mages who wear more than pants and a shirt would probably be filling up all their first-level spell slots with repair spells rather than such spells as are the trademark of both young and experienced wizards (like identify-- if it's low level like I think it is-- and magic missile). This would especially be an issue for the young wizards who'd end up having the majority of their spells be repair spells if they wanted to keep their clothes intact. If such a repair spell affected all one's clothing, that would counteract this problem at least, but I'm not sure that's code-friendly.

I think thats a really good point (in fact that was what I was going to suggest, heh). Many wizards wear at least 5 different articles of clothing. In D&D, they would have just one or two, a robe and maybe a hat. The spell would be more useful in D&D because of this, but because of the different slots for clothing and how a robe might be broken down into 4 different pieces on the mud, this would mean a wizard, just to repair his clothing after each battle, would have to keep about 5 spell slots occupied and have to re-memorise them after each battle.