alignment and cities

Horace · Post by **Horace** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:04 pm

I just wanted to see if there was any leeway on certain cities barring an alignment. I feel like maybe the reason it was coded that way was during a time in the game where things were a little different.

Races, yeah - makes perfect sense. Alignment makes less sense to me. Especially when you're talking about cities that are big by real life standards.

I'm not sure if it's realistic from a coding stand point. I just wanted to toss my note into the suggestion box.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:19 pm

Could you perhaps be more precise? What restriction(s) would you remove?

Horace · Post by **Horace** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:27 pm

entrance to a city based on alignment

Alvirin · Post by **Alvirin** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:27 pm

One of my personals proposals is the idea of being possible starting an evil character in Waterdeep.

There are many kinds of evil, and some archetypes could work without breaking the "nice rule" of Waterdeep. Of course If someone begins to act "too evil" for Waterdeep standards, most probably will be kicked of the city or worse.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:32 pm

Yes, I understood you were talking about alignment restrictions... but which ones exactly?

Allow evil chars in Waterdeep?
Allow evil chars in Silverymoon?
Allow good chars in Zhentil Keep?
Allow good chars in the Orc Camp?
...

Horace · Post by **Horace** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:41 pm

oh, sorry - i'm not talking about hometown for a character. I'm talking about being refused entrance to a city because of alignment.

Myself I'm talking about evils being barred from Silverymoon. But any instance similar to that regardless of alignment would equally apply, imo.

Oghma · Post by **Oghma** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:31 am

Consider Silverymoon to icly be the favoured city of Selune and protected by wards to keep evils from entering in most fashions. This includes openly evil individuals and otherwise. Much like the reception a goodly character should receive in Zhentil keep, only the zhents see greed in trade enough to not magically thwart goodies unlike the Silverymoon people who know evil and work actively to keep it out. I would wrack it up to one of those things where in a city of mostly good evils have no place, especially a place like Silverymoon.

My personal opinion:

In its plainest, Silverymoon is a place for goodly to neutral pc's to meet and organize. Its magical properties have aided in the coding that keeps it open to only certain alignments. There are other ic means to acquire, items or trades in the world of Forgotten Kingdoms and even though a percentage of some player characters are cut off from it, they are not the only ones, non dwarves will not be able to enter Mithril Hall, Elves might experience trouble entering orcish places and so on. I reiterate, just because you think you have sufficiently hid your alignment or are hiding it, does not mean there is not an ic way for the magic to judge you and thwart your entry. It is nothing against you or your rp, but it is how a certain area has been designed to work based on its history in game.

In a completely unrelated note:

And in the past there has been a terrible tradition of taking and alignment of good or neutral to gain access to certain areas evils cannot go, then when training or purchases are done becoming evil with an inappropriate alignment. That should not be done, in role play your teachers would notice your intent and they would take steps to thwart you.

Horace · Post by **Horace** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:14 am

Shoot, i wasn't trying to imply Horace should be allowed because of anything rp wise. I'm was just saying that on principle, i think it's kind of silly - Persistent detect alignment force field ward around an entire city thats pretty darn big. Silverymoon counts over 37,000 residents with the dominant race being human (by faerun standards being split evenly along alignments and the race most naturally motivated to encourage trade).

I just got the feeling that maybe it was made that way for more OOC purposes than IC purposes some time ago, where now the OOC reasons may have less weight than they use to. If that was the case, that it was made that way for something that isn't as prominent now - i was hoping to start a discussion about it. If the reasons are still there out of character, I can easily just gloss over it.

Having a guard stop someone for being specific race or anything that isnt the home race, as suggested, makes perfect sense setting wise. I wouldn't suggest a change if the population of Silverymoon was elven and they didn't want humans there; that makes sense. But a perpetual detect alignment that takes care of over 37k people nonstop and is also a force field, is silly (even their netherese neighbors couldn't pull that off)...but easily ignorable if you fellas upstairs think the OOC weight is still significant enough to keep around.

Alvirin · Post by **Alvirin** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:29 am

Actually Silverymoon is one of those unique special places in Faerun®, since it is one of the few places that has active mythal.

The mythal of Silverymoon causes a permanent effect of antipathy in the city (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antipathy.htm) attuned to repel people of evil alignment, making people of evil alignment feeling REALLY REALLY BAD if they come close or enter the city. If the guards see someone that just after crossing the gates falls over the ground in pain (and he must have an exceptional willpower to being able to go so close to Silverymoon while enduring a so terrible pain) he will be likely kicked out of the city (at best).

Horace · Post by **Horace** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:33 am

According to the faerun wiki, they have a mythal that wards off evil dragons - according to the wotc site the mythal was never performed in silverymoon, and volo's guide in 2nd ed was only rumor of one.

But i haven't looked into it too hard, i never considered it could be canon that a ward like that exists in the setting - i'll look into it in more length over the course of the night.

Horace · Post by **Horace** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:07 am

Oh snap!

Apparently there are persistent wards for detect evil and the presence of spellcasting...just like in the game. Nevermind my suggestion!

Oghma · Post by **Oghma** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:09 am

As I said, consider it canon in FK, now and then liberties are taken. FR welcomes some non dwarves into Mithril Hall for example. Remember we are not FR though we are a world based on it.

Horace · Post by **Horace** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:19 am

I understand completely, the reason for the mithril hall thing is ooc (for good reason) - just like I thought this one was, and because of that asking for discussion about it. But it's not. It's entirely setting based.

I wasn't trying to be facetious. I sincerely thought it was done for an OOC reason. My apologies.

Oghma · Post by **Oghma** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:24 am

I would not worry about it and there is no reason to apologize. A great deal of the current coding is a deterrent yes, but also for ic reasons related to the area, there are anomalies but most it is to normalize rp or facilitate it. You question is valid and allows for an in depth explanation. I do apologize if I have come off as very broad or direct in my responses it has only been so to explain crisply why such coding exists. There are methods to be exempt, but they involve detailed applications or quests that could be submitted, but I can give no guarantees on if they will be used or not. It is up to you.

Aglaca · Post by **Aglaca** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:19 am

If I misunderstand the conclusions of this post, then sorry.

But it seems now that since two wizard guilds are in Silverymoon, then does that mean no evil players can be in those guilds? Invokers and Transmuters I think.

Just a thought.

Aglaca

Oghma · Post by **Oghma** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:27 am

No, it means that those guilds in Silverymoon are off limits to those that cannot enter the city by code because of alignment. Guilds to those respective schools elsewhere are open to all or specified alignments, you just need to find them ic.

Hviti · Post by **Hviti** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:18 pm

There are evil transmuters and invokers. Whether those are from TNs who went into Silverymoon, then turned evil, or from other guilds, I don´t know.

Oghma · Post by **Oghma** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:06 pm

Turned evil is not the right word, rather they were discovered not properly roleplaying their alignment and were adjusted. This could also result in a loss of intelligence or spells learned icly under false pretenses in guilds only sponsoring certain alignments. Of course, you could always apply properly for an alignment change if it can be justified.

Mariela · Post by **Mariela** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:32 pm

I will testify to the fact that if you are playing your character and you look up at their alignment and go.. "Er... that makes no sense.." that if you explain that to the IM's they will change it for you!

Yes, by not being a good person, sometimes you are forbidden access to areas in the game and certain spells, and so forth. However, the same is true of good people too, if you are actually playing your alignment. No one should feel that alignment is a punishment, but rather a guide to the way your character ticks.

Same way with your starting location. Yes, you could be an evil person from Silverymoon...breaking ties with the man and so forth.. however, if you really WANT that... submit it to the IM's and let them decide wether or not it's something that the game can suport. There are TONS of things you can get permission for, as so long as you are willing to work with the IM's and give your full explaination of why you think this would be a contribution to the game.

So... if you think you are not playing your alignment, submit it to the IM's and give them the reasons why! That is what those email addresses to contact them are for!

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:29 pm

Just for newer player's confusions sake: Imm's, not IM's. There is no IM system to contact imms with. :D