Anti-Paladins

[Ceara]

I do recall asking about having anti-paladins way back like 6 years ago and the answer was no because the mud was intended to lean towards good.

However, the mud has changed a great deal in the past years and so I am wondering again about the possibility of having Anti-Paladins since we have Paladins.

To clarify, I've played many Anti-Paladins on another mud and started an order of them. What I am suggesting is not just an uber warrior with prayers and no restrictions because that isn't how it works imo.

It is a person who is extremely devoted to their god and goddess, being the right hand of the church and enforces the doctrine. They have some prayers but as much as a priest. They also have a code of honor and disciplines to conduct themselves by.

For example, abiding your superiors. Not turning away from a challenge. Enforcing the will of your church if they've instructed you to perform a task etc...

Currently there is nothing out there to counter Paladins, though I do think that it would be just as rp intensive to become an Anti-Paladin as it would a Paladin.

[Oghma]

Just curious...

What churches in Dnd sponsor Anti-paladins and what is an ic title for them ie. Dread Knight, Black Knight etc.

Please note, I do not endorse this suggestion I am just curious. In the past the rule was in place to keep knightly characters from all going evil a la the Darth Vader route to the darkside.

[Laitaine]

The D&D term is Blackguard and they're a prestige class.

Here's the wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackguard

If you scroll down on this page there's some more info.

[Raona]

Currently there is nothing out there to counter Paladins, though I do think that it would be just as rp intensive to become an Anti-Paladin as it would a Paladin.

What Paladins? Ok, it's not quite that bad, but at least as of when I left for a while we hardly had an army of good Paladins traipsing about. I am, of course, biased, but I'd really like to see a thriving goodie-goodie Paladin community before we talk about developing something to counter them! As far as I can tell right now the baddies are having their run of our fair kingdom...or at least they are doing much much better, even without an army of Darth Vaders running around. It might be an interesting roleplay, but at the moment justifying it by saying something needs to counter the goodly Paladins is a solution crying out for a problem, at least in my eyes. It's a struggle just trying to keep up with all the ne'er do wells currently on the loose!

[Horace]

I think it'd be an automatic prestige class to throw in if that ever comes around. Otherwise I think we should focus on getting the core classes in first - sorcerer/barbarian.

[Ceara]

Thankies Laitaine that saved a lot of typing .

Raona, there may not be a lot of active paladins now but there used to be. My statement about having an opposition for paladins was more against the arguement that it would imbalance the game because I don't believe it will. Also the suggestion was more for an rp perspective than a powerful one. Just because there aren't many paladins right now doesn't mean there won't be. There are a lot of squires. By the same token it should be no less difficult for someone to become an antipaladin or blackguard.

[Kirkus]

Raona, what better way to encourage the goodie population than to have something for them to work against.

[Zilvryn]

It's a struggle just trying to keep up with all the ne'er do wells currently on the loose!

Only because you're a sissy Tyrran.

[Velius]

I've been wanting to make an Anti-Paladin on this MUD for since I started, I just didn't know they existed! Now then, Blackguard would be awesome for the MUD, the good guys get everything it seems, it'd be great for events/rp to have a class of ultimate evil. Goodies get Ranger's and Paladin's, the bad guys should get atleast 1 bad-guy only class. The only problem I see is finding a god that would host/lead the Blackguard.

EDIT: I'll BE RESEARCHIN'

[Laitaine]

Much as I'd love to see Blackguards added to the MUD, I'll echo that I'd still rather get the core classes mentioned, along with various other issues, sorted out first.

Ceara is right that they should be just as RP intensive as paladins. It certainly isn't a position that should come easily! In the interim, I'd suggest that applications are the way forward for anyone wanting to go the way of the Blackguard.

[Ceara]

A god that jumps to mind is Bane

[Japcil]

I think we could have both right now honestly. As long as the same RP requirements apply as to those for Paladins then its not like we will have 5 anti-paladins before we start to see one Paladin.

However, I will mimik that I too would like to see the barbarian race come in as well, perhaps a sweep of adding new classes will come. No one said we have to do one class at a time.

[Velius]

A god that jumps to mind is Bane

Agreed

[Dalvyn]

Blackguards/anti-paladins, drow, thieves, tieflings (to a smaller extent), ... all have something in common in my opinion. That "something in common" represents, in my opinion, a potential danger for a "mature" roleplay-based mud. This "something in common" is what I would describe as a high "coolness" factor, or as a high "twink-attractiveness" potential.

I can't help but imagine a 13-year old player thinking out loud "Oh yeah, a blackguard. Now, that's a cool kick-ass character." (replace blackguard with drow/thief/tiefling/...), and I can't help but imagine the very same character being played and roleplayed extremely poorly.

Does that mean that those options are bad? Most likely not. Does that mean that those options shouldn't be opened, just because there is a high risk that most characters using that option will diminish the enjoyment of other players? I guess not. But that at least mean that those options should be carefully thought out before they are available in the game, in my opinion.

[Laitaine]

I can't actually find any information pinning Blackguards to a particular set of gods - and it's worth noting they don't have to be lawful evil - they can be evil in any of its lovely varieties. WoTC also say that they can stem from any base class - not just fighter type classes - probably because they are a prestige class, whereas paladins are a base class.

**NWN Spoiler here!*




Aribeth de Tylmarande (Neverwinter Nights, so not actually canon - dear gods I sound anal now...) becomes a Blackguard to Morag - not a god last time I checked anyhow

Bane does definitely have Blackguards though, (see Scyllua Darkhope for example).

Oh and edit to add: I agree with Dalvyn, I was just trying to think of a polite way to phrase it. We evils sometimes have a pretty hard time as it is convincing people we're not out to make the MUD miserable for them.

[Japcil]

And we have kismet costs for a reason, though since they wouldn't be choosing through chargen a blackguard its something that a Imm that heads the blackguards RP would have to decide if they take it into consideration when progressing the character in training.

Also, I always thought Paladins were a highly monitored class and that if they deviated from the guidelines given by the one they serve they didn't become a paladin, wouldn't this same tactic weed out the poor RP of a blackguard?

[Velius]

Blackguards/anti-paladins, drow, thieves, tieflings (to a smaller extent), ... all have something in common in my opinion. That "something in common" represents, in my opinion, a potential danger for a "mature" roleplay-based mud. This "something in common" is what I would describe as a high "coolness" factor, or as a high "twink-attractiveness" potential.

I can't help but imagine a 13-year old player thinking out loud "Oh yeah, a blackguard. Now, that's a cool kick-ass character." (replace blackguard with drow/thief/tiefling/...), and I can't help but imagine the very same character being played and roleplayed extremely poorly.

Does that mean that those options are bad? Most likely not. Does that mean that those options shouldn't be opened, just because there is a high risk that most characters using that option will diminish the enjoyment of other players? I guess not. But that at least mean that those options should be carefully thought out before they are available in the game, in my opinion.

I thought the paladin was a HARD class to RP, cuz I'm not a goody at heart, I really liked the concept of the paladin, but I wanted to be evil

I think that with a blackguard I'd just want to know how I SHOULD RP a blackguard ( I love making the unique 1 of-a-kind characters, I'm like a Drizzt Do'Urden, I'm different from the crowd ) and how a blackguard shouldn't be RPed, just lay down the rules, have people send in applications, if you think they are mature enough to follow the rules and RP well then I think we'd do perfectly fine, look how the Paladin class has progressed.

EDITED TO ADD: Just read Japcil's post I agree full-heartedly

[Horace]

If you just play a fighter of Cyric - and become a follower of cyric, you can almost entirely get the roleplaying aspect of being a blackguard. The only thing you'll be missing is the very low level spells.

What makes blackguards cool, is their discipline and and willingness to serve. The spells are gravy - you can darn near play a black guard the way it is.

[Zilvryn]

There's a couple of fighters in game actually who's RP fits the blackguard..

[Velius]

Becoming a blackguard should be EXACTLY like becoming a paladin, except you are evil, meaning that you'd have to go through the same progresses and whatnot.

If we really go through with this, what gods should be... blackguardable?

Bane
Cyric?
MORE!

I'm thinking that if we point out the gods first then we'd have a general idea of what races should be able to become a blackguard

Would a drow work out? I know humans work