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I would like to see Enchanters be able to enchant pc's, but I would like ideas from other players so that we can make it fair. Enchanters are not those throw a fireball kind of class they are subtle with their magic, well not so much subtle as they are manipulative and cunning. So what ideas are out there for allowing Enchanters some ability to charm other pc's or enchant them.

Charming PCs would be a PK action, which means this change isn't likely to happen. Besides, given how charm works, it'd be far too easy to abuse, and extremely difficult (more like virtually impossible) to code in the variables built into the D&D version of the spell to protect against it being used to directly kill someone.

There is virtually no way to protect against charm being used to kill a PC, be it tossing them into a room with a powerful mob, or into a river to drown. Because of this, it'd become the de-facto save-or-die spell: you don't resist it, you're dead.

Not really though, because not everyone is about seeing someone die. Enchanting someone could be to break a heart of a love one, or make them look bad in the eyes of their friends the ones they have to back them. Death is so cliche, They can always be raised. What any true Enchanter would want is to not destroy their life, but their image.

And I believe I already stated it would be hard to code, but I would like to hear any ideas out there about how we could help the enchanters out to become that awsome guild they are.

Pascus wrote:Enchanting someone could be to break a heart of a love one, or make them look bad in the eyes of their friends the ones they have to back them.

This can already be done with Ventriloquism. But if you wanted to make charm usable on PCs, about the only way to do it I think would be by making it work effectively like Hold Person, and grant the caster the ability to act through them via smotes and such.

The problem I see with this is the problem I have with all spells of this type, when used on another PC: it strips control of a PC from the player, which means in most cases you're removing their ability to enjoy a game. If this is agreed to by all parties... sure, but then, if it is, why can't it just be done without resorting to code?

Aegir wrote:

The problem I see with this is the problem I have with all spells of this type, when used on another PC: it strips control of a PC from the player, which means in most cases you're removing their ability to enjoy a game. If this is agreed to by all parties... sure, but then, if it is, why can't it just be done without resorting to code?

I think roleplaying out a charming of a PC is harder than it sounds, because how do you know if the PC actually saves against the spell or not? As a result, there is actually less choice about the matter, than if there was a spell coded.

Aegir wrote:
Charming PCs would be a PK action, which means this change isn't likely to happen. Besides, given how charm works, it'd be far too easy to abuse, and extremely difficult (more like virtually impossible) to code in the variables built into the D&D version of the spell to protect against it being used to directly kill someone.

There is virtually no way to protect against charm being used to kill a PC, be it tossing them into a room with a powerful mob, or into a river to drown. Because of this, it'd become the de-facto save-or-die spell: you don't resist it, you're dead.

There's a few points to make, here:

1. "charm person" doesn't give the caster complete control of the player as if he (or she) was a puppetmaster. Instead, it just instils in the target a sense that this wizard is their friend. This means they will do some things, but certain requests (requests that lead to death, for example) will not be obeyed.

2. The caster can certainly be trusted OOCly not to endanger the life of a PC with the spell. Just make it a rule that any actions as a result of this spell cannot result in immediate death. They can persuade the victim to attack their friends, to let them into their secret temples, but no jumping into that hole with lethal poison-tipped spikes.

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I was wondering if a happy compromise could be made? Which basically makes any enchantment spells (charm person, dominate person, etc) act on two levels.

1. Casting on a MOB

An enchantment spell upon a MOB creates a minion you can order around until the spell wears off. The same as it is now.

2. Casting on a PC

I assume it is fairly easy (correct me if I'm wrong!) to add some sort of IF_TARGET_IS_A_PC flag to the spell? If it is, then make sure that the spell is worked out similarly to the MOB in terms of resistances, will saves, etc. BUT instead of making the PC a minion of the caster, there would simply be an echo sent at the PC informing them:

(IF it was a "charm person") You become aware that you really trust the person in front of you. He has always been your good friend, and you would do anything for him.

(OR, if it was a more potent charm that does make the victim little more than a puppet) You find your will leeched away, your mind enslaved to the person in fromt of you.

Then, the caster can use smotes to direct the PC, so there is real RP and IC consequences, without the stripping of direct OOC control.

What do people think of that half-and-half idea?

~Ol

Lerytha wrote:I was wondering if a happy compromise could be made? Which basically makes any enchantment spells (charm person, dominate person, etc) act on two levels.

Sounds reasonable enough, but it raises a question: if this is what charm does, what does dominate do?

Maybe its best if all charm does to PCs is inform them they are suddenly very friendly to the caster, and they should be expected to RP that properly, while Dominate is the one that comes with a level of control.

Sorry, I should have made that more clear. When I said "more potent charm" I meant the Dominate spell.