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I was curious but...how come neutral characters cannot start from Mithral Hall? I know MH has taken in dwarves from other locations after it was rescued many migrated there to join Clan Battlehammer in restoring this lost homeland? I could see why evil dwarves couldn't start there, but I could see neutral dwarves not just straight good aligned dwarves only. It's the only dwarven city in the game which makes it a hassle to visit as a dwarf. I could even see a quest to change one's hometown to Mithral hall or just to be able to enter the place freely if you are a dwarf.

If it helps, the leader of the Gutbuster Brigade (Thibbledorf Pwent) and his followers are CN, and they live in MH.

hehe I wish Battlerager was an official class for dwarves..XD but aye!

See the other post in the general discussion thread regarding CN and under the radar evil as to why neutral dwarves are not allowed to start in Mithril Hall. It was the same explanation Sharni offered some years back when the neutrals were removed from Mithril Hall in the first place.

As I recall, it was a decision to even remove the Lawful Neutrals from Mithril Hall because of a few characters' tendencies to play, as she put it, on "the evil side of neutral."

Hometown change is, of course, another one of the things you can apply for. And perhaps the admins would approve a shift, once said dwarf has proven himself well in RP to be above the radar.

I truly do not agree with it. Albeit if one or two act the darker side of trying to be neutral why not just kick them out? It just makes it a hassle for thsoe dwarves who are acting in regard to this and having them barred from the one true and only dwarven city in game. It would be even nice if you could befriend dwarves from Mithral Hall and they vouch for one that has proven themselves in rp to them to be allowed entrance into the halls alone.

How long has it been in the past for those who did that?

I say give dwarves the freedom to see a dwarven city in game or perhaps if someone who builds might pick up a torch and put another dwarven city into FK?

And if it's the matter of so wanting to have made a dwarf from Mithril Hall... the reason it couldn't be a CG to LG dwarf is?

If it's a CN dwarf, what's to keep the RP from being more good-leaning and making CG?

If it's a TN dwarf, what's to keep the RP from being more benevolent and making a NG?

One doesn't have to be the total boy scout goody goody of a LG. Just show a little dwarfly neighborly benevolence.

If it's about the company one wants to keep outside the good circles once outside Mithril Hall, then we come back around to the whole ongoing CN/evil debate going on.

Not saying that it's necessarily the right thing how alignments are restricted, just how it came to be, and injecting a little fuel for thought.

Food! >.> I sorta just see it as..the one all dwarf community in game being totally restrict by alignment of having not given a choice to be a goody if you want to be in Mithral hall. It also restricts the one feat to good align only of the feat strong arm which is what gives dwarves the ability to wield weapons like they naturally should as if they where medium sized. It sorta screws the TN or TE LE CE alignments does it not? Since that feat is also regionally restricted rather than racially restricted likei t should be. >.> Mmm I wish I had the time and patience to build. It would be nice to have another dwarven town somewhere in the eastern half of the world or what have you that is open to all alignments and a nice enough place for dwarves to hang out and even open shops that sell goods they'd only sell to each other and not the lesser races >.>

Any non-evil dwarf can enter Mithril Hall, it is only those creating there that have to have a good alignment.

As to allowing CN dwarves in Mithril Hall; make a CG dwarf there and roleplay as CN long enough for a later application to be found acceptable.

I think Tobias said that he was able to enter the Halls with some help, but he could not train them/get things to trigger fo dwarf specific quests, because of his alignment and or hometown.

I think anyway...I know.. its dangerous..

Aye. What Orplar said. The dwarf specific things in there plus just getting in so you can meet up with the newbie dwarves and the like. It's not just about being able to enter freely..a dwarf can't learn those dwarf only trade quests so if you wanted a dwarven smith then your sorta. I think its sort ugh that you have to be good aligned there to start. It might have had trouble in the past but why not give it another try in the now? Because any dwarf that -CAN'T- start there is missing out on a few of the dwarf bonuses.

The price of being able to create a dwarf of any alignment from any city is to not automatically gain the easy access to trades that those in Mithril Hall do.

I'm sorry, but this notion of 'he's got it I should have it' is a circular argument most times.

It says to me 'I want to be like him but I dont want it to be any harder to do that than it was for him'. It also ignores all of the other options open to someone who wishes to achieve the same 'as him' and is willing to put in a little effort to demonstrate that they're worth the attention.

As it stands now, with the new Teach system, there is little that a dwarf from Mithril Hall can learn that any other dwarf can not - it just takes a little more effort than walking past the right NPC.

As to feats, it has already been suggested that some feats particular to dwarves are made more freely available.

Still that is only one side to it. I find it just agitating that a dwarf can't go visit a dwarven city and not even at least earn the right to enter freely other than applying for an alignment change and then a home town change to Mithral Hall. If a dwarf sticks around a place long enough I am pretty sure they will welcome him in. It will take effort yes that is a fun side of it, but as it stands dwarves are the one race that can't all freely visit the one dwarven place in the game. Humans it's easy just walk to the place your there. Elves eh they can go look and find the place then are able to freely walk in..then dwarves its like you find them you go..then its like sorry wait for another dwarf to get on..and then actually meet them and then if your lucky you get to go in...

I dunno..I don't think I am getting my point out the way I want it to come across. I just wish dwarves could go visit a dwarven place see the sights and have a more likely chance of running into other dwarves which are at times hard to find and sometimes not.

Dwarves aren't a trusting race. There are trade wars and sabotage between dwarven cities all the time. In Mithril Hall there are visitor rooms and guard rooms just inside the entrance. There's a reason for that. Visitors don't usually get in any farther than that, and the guards are there in part to watch the visitors. Dwarves like to keep things secret, even from other dwarves. They guard things like production methods and capabilities extremely closely. These are the reasons outside dwarves can't get into Mithril Hall without an escort.

Let me say this again. Any dwarf can enter Mithril Hall, with or without an escort

Evil dwarves will be thrown out though and non-Mithril Hall dwarves will mostly be unable to train or activate quests.

Maybe they can get in, but I don't think that means they should. If they're not from Mithril Hall they wouldn't know the way in and Mithril Hall dwarves shouldn't show them.

Exactly.

There is every opportunity for a non-Mithril hall dwarf to be part of the whole Dwarven roleplay if they do so ICly.

Actually. From reading many novels that have Mithral Hall in them..Many many dwarves went to Mithral hall and even joined the halls and where allowed inside.

Now if they looked at the person and got a sense of not trusting them they'd turn them on there arse quite fast though

This is about the non-Mithril Hall dwarves. Brodnur has had several non M.H. dwarves seek her out, in hopes of being faithed, accepted into the Halls, etc, etc. Since she is still only at the initiate level, she helps them as best she can, preaches to them about following Moradin, and tries to get in touch with a faith manager to pass word along of those that do not know any, ICCLY. I guess my big question is, is she allowed to lead those from another city into the Halls, providing of course, they are of a goodly heart, and law abiding mind?And can she help integrate them into the society of the Halls? She has been asked that several times, and usually says that she has to ask her superiors, either the King or in the faith, before allowing them to enter, or something along those same lines. I know that she *can* lead another dwarf in, but is that against the rules and laws of the King and High Cleric of Moradin? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, be it good or bad.

Unless the rules have changed somehow during my... vacation, dwarves from any city can enter MH, though those of evil alignment do not recieve a warm welcome. All other races are not allowed in and any dwarf aiding other races entering the city will be punished IC (and maybe OOC). The only thing non-MH dwarves miss out on regarding MH are the hometown started trade quests MH dwarves gain early on. Also any dwarf entering MH is responsible for understand the unique mindset of MH regarding other dwarves and their equipment (mounts, cart, ect) and the consequences of breaking the rules.

Short answer, dwarves of any place can enter MH but only MH dwarves get the full benefits of the city's potential.

So, basically, just use good judgement and maybe a know alignment on who, if any dwarves I take in? I think I can do that. Just didnt want to get blasted by the King for bringing in outsiders or something