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Alright, starting this so I didn't derail the other thread, and also add a spot to discuss how each different faiths paladins should be RPed.

Alrighty, I don't know much at all about paladins, but are you aloud to make a paladin RPed like Sir William Wallace (Braveheart)?

And, to make this have more meaning...

How should a paladin of one deities faith differ from anothers? AKA how should a Tormite paladin's RP differ from that of a Helmites? Can someone who knows more about the topic post how each different faiths paladins differ?

Here's a summary (yes, it's still long) of the primary Torman knightly order, the Golden Lions, if you have the patience to read this all:

Following Torm's rebirth, the church founded a new order of paladins, known as the Order of the Golden Lion, to serve as holy warriors of Torm. Led by First Champion of Torm Sir Dylan Lionshand, these holy warriors are especially dedicated to actively serving the Penance of Duty, and they wander the Realms in Torm's service. (For example, the Champion Reborn, Sir Gwydion the Quick, serves Torm by escorting Rinda the scribe who bears the Cyrinishad.) Many members of the Order of the Golden Lion are found guarding the temples of a wide variety of peaceful faiths, while others embark on quests to recover lost relics of various goodly gods. Failure to actively serve the letter and the spirit of the Penance of Duty by any member of this order results in the loss of paladinhood, reclaimable only through the casting of an atonement spell and the completion of a difficult quest in the service of Torm set according to the goals of the Penance of Duty.

Knights of the Order of the Golden Lion cannot advance in level without serving in some fashion that helps alleviate one of the debts mentioned in the Penance of Duty.

Torm has dictated a series of responsibilities and obligations for his followers to atone for their collective failings. These "debts" are collectively referred to as the Penance of Duty, detailed below. Tormtar are required to actively implement and coordinate efforts and actions dictated by the Penance of Duty in addition to following the normal tenets of their faith. Tormtar are required to follow the Penance of Duty without fail, and, at least once every other level, serve in some fashion that helps alleviate one of the debts mentioned in the Penance of Duty. The Penance of Duty is as follows:

Debt of Persecution: To repay their persecution of other religions, the truly faithful must aid other goodly religions in reestablishing themselves.

Debt of Dereliction: To atone for their abdication of duty to guard against strife, the Tormish must expend all possible effort to eliminate any surviving cults of Bane, as well as to oppose all efforts of Cyricists, Xvimists, and the Zhentarim.

Debt of Destruction: Followers of Torm are obliged to relieve the destruction to the magic weave incurred during the Time of Troubles. All dead magic areas are to be reported and repaired. In addition, all permanent results of the magical chaos of the Time of Troubles are to be similarly undone and all wild magic areas reported and eradicated.

Ilmater's order in FK is the Holy Warriors of Suffering. This order differs from FR to FK. First, in FR they are an order which operates in the north(I take the north to mean Waterdeep on up). They protect pilgrims and caravans and in payment ask only for a bit of food and an audience to share tales of Ilmater's glory. Their symbol is the purple crocus to signify the end of winter and therefore the end of its sufferings. They see the harsh conditions of the north's winters as a test to their endurance.

In FK the order translates to something a bit more generic, as Ilmater has over a dozen different orders of paladins, monks, and misc orders. The FK order I feel is something of a compromise amongst all of those different orders, the common ground amongst them if you will, as there simply isn't enough activity, time, or resources to have all the orders in the game.

I feel that the heart of a paladin of Ilmater lies in two things that the faith is rich in. One is the large amount of saints. They give examples of how the holy of Ilmater act in selfless and noble ways. The most famous of Ilmater's saints being St Sollars the Twice Martyred and St Dionysus, but there are literally hundreds and if you look hard enough you can find information on a bunch of them.

The second is the similarly large amount of monk and paladin orders. Each one represents and emphasizes a different aspect of Ilmater's faith. For example the Disciples of St Sollars(The Order of the Yellow Rose) emphasize the importance of casting off the material in favor of the spiritual and finding strength in that. The Followers of the Unhindered Path are the epitomized wandering healers.

If you look at the lives of the saints you can see how a paladin of Ilmater should act, and looking at the orders shows you the virtues a paladin of Ilmater should value. But what exactly makes a paladin of Ilmater different from a paladin of say Tyr? For one I think that paladins of Ilmater epitomize the humility and charity aspect of paladinhood while a Tormite would embody the courageousness aspect, and a Tyrran the lawful. Also they tend to champion the causes of the oppressed and unjustly treated, as that coincides nicely with their dogma. They may tend to be more forgiving in the eyes of the law than a Helmite paladin would be.

But these are just general trends I would say, and many characters will overlap and show signs of different faiths in their RP. Also the three faiths of the Triad, Torm Tyr and Ilmater, are very close in their goals and methods, so their paladins will often resemble each other. Helmites are like Tormites without souls and paladins of Corellon are elves playing in human armor... Kidding, of course. But overall, while each order will follow the same rules, I feel the difference lies in which rules the individual orders emphasize.

The Kelemvorite church is sponsoring a holy order of crusaders and
paladins to target undead creatures of fearsome prowess who tax the
resources of the clergy of the nascent church.

The Knights of the Eternal Order are more in line with the ideal of mobile faith. They like most of the others in the Kelemvorite church travel widely to do battle with the undead and are solely dedicated to this task, allowing administration of the church to otherwise function while holding to the current diving mandate of Lord Death.

They battle unusually strong undead and travel widely, more or less.

I think the three examples above do a great job of sketching the basic idea - knights of each faith will have a somewhat unique focus and outlook, but they will also have a great deal in common. They are all lawful good, share the same vows, and go through similar training. But an Ilmateri knight will go out of their way to aid those in need, those who are suffering. A Tyrran will seek out injustice and do their best to put it right. Helmites and Tormtars will guard and protect. But I choose these pairs to also underscore how outlooks differ. An Ilmateri is far more likely to give a miscreant a second, or even a third chance at redemption. A Tyrran (if a Knight of the Merciful Sword as opposed to a Knight of Holy Judgement) may allow one chance at redemption, but if that is squandered, they are far more likely to be comfortable with exacting a harsh penalty indeed for recidivism. A Tormtar knight guards and protects out of a sense of obligation and atonement - an effort to put things right, and to compensate for errors of the past. A Helmite knight guards and protects because it is their duty to their church, not their obligation to those they guard. They follow the letter of their orders, and are very unlikely to deviate from those orders, even if asked to do so by those they guard. Or, at least, that's my take on it!

Corellon's knights, at least those that serve in the Fellowship of the Forgotten Flower are dedicated to find and retrieve elven artifcats/symbols and the recovery of lost elven relics from long-abandoned elven realms. I dare to expanse their field of duties to service for the elven people in general f.e. by protecting settlements and villages, working as diplomats/mediators in conflicts between elves, as voices of their church etc.

Though I do not argue that they, as beings of good, also fight for the safety and the good cause, respect and strive for law and it's abidance, I strongly believe they have interestes that vary more or less greatly from the interests of "mere" Ilmateri/Tormtar/Helmite knights. (The term "mere" is not used in a lowering context)

As I see it, the churches of the Triad, Tyr, Torm and Ilmater, are three faiths working in hand with the same end, with different means and purposes within. One could almost refer to Tyr, Ilmater, and Torm as Judge, Jury, and Executioner, respectively. Tyr weighs every deed and act in respect to the greater good. Ilmater seeks to temper judgement with compassion and mercy, and Torm will carry out the final judgement of his superior with firm, swift precision. Much is the same with a Tormish paladin; he will stand by his resolve, true to his word, unquestioning in what he knows to be right.

Doctrinally, The Tormish do not revere saints, rather esteem each person based on his works; superiority is purely a mortal position, with no one person in the faith esteemed spiritually superior to another. Even a chosen of Torm is considered fallible, and his words subject to scrutiny of ones own moral conviction. This is in no small part due to the fall of the church in the Time of Troubles, when the high pontiff of the faith led a campaign of religious persecution and heresy, with many followers following him blindly against Torm's will. After this Torm taught his followers to always be wary of the decrees of other men, and to uproot corruption or inequity in the system, by working within the system.

Torm is the patron of Truth, the diametric opposite of Cyric. It is for this reason that He is also set against the Maskarran, as Mask stands for a different sort of guile and deception, but falsity all the same. A paladin of Torm's faith would never take party in deception or falsehood, without facing severe self-inflicted penance, as it would be anathema to his patron.

What Paladins are: they are good, they're actions are done to further their god's agenda and promote his worship, they are knights who follow strict codes while on duty (many choose to do so during leisure as well)., they will always promote order.


Differences of paladins:

First off, all paladins are different. All paladins have different personalities. The things posted above are only generalities (as I'm sure the posters know). As long as your character is lawful good, he's eligible...you can make up any personality around that alignment, and it can work with any faith's paladin orders...it just may take a little longer to earn the full respect of your peers than if you created a personality solely to cater to a faith's edicts.

You'll find that a lot of flair from the faiths are cliche - but in a fun way that you as a player can look at the qualities of the god and apply to the PC. If death was an demeanor, what would it be? The sun? Beauty? Elves? You can take these qualities you envision and apply it to a paladin's personality.

Keep in mind that most of all those specific duties above are given by the orders of the faiths...just because you're a paladin doesn't mean you're in the order of the faith you serve. It's great to know the stereotypes of the faiths' paladins, but don't get too caught up in them...or else everyone will be playing cloned stereotypes.

We've posted a bit of information around the knightly orders and their faiths in the past, but I'd like to thank the posters above for putting up some very useful information. There's probably not a lot I can add to it, but here are a couple of links to items I've posted in the last few years

http://www.gallwey.com/fk/board/viewtopic.php?t=5260

http://www.gallwey.com/fk/board/viewtopic.php?t=5787

Wow, GREAT information everyone, when I first began the thread I thought I'd get a quick comparison of each deity and their orders then an answer to my question: But it ended up being much more then that due to the efforts of you guys. I suspect this thread will be able to aide others as well as myself from here to the future. All in all, thanks for the great answers, and thanks again for the help.

Alright, I have a question: Do you have to be part of one of the deity orders to be a paladin? (F.E. If you are a paladin of Torm do you have to be part of the Order of the Golden Lion?)

You may need an answer from Kelemvor or a Faith Manager (FM) for that, but, at least so far as the Tormish are concerned, all the paladins I've seen have been Golden Lions lately. That's not very definitive, I know; I think you need bigger guns to shoot that question.

I've been wondering about the two paladin orders of Tyr, based on something I read a long time ago. One of the source books offered paladin variants, including non-lawful paladins altogether. While I am not investigating the possibility of non-lawful paladins, I would like to question the existance of the dual-orders of Tyr, and whether or not anyone has ever actually played the different roles. I kind've like it.

A paladin of Torm does not have to join the Golden Lions, in the same way that a paladin of Kelemvor does not have to join the Eternal Order or a paladin of Corellon the Fellowship of the Forgotten Flower.

Most paladins do though, since that gives them access to something a little bit extra or adds that element of faith difference to the paladin class that was referred to in the magical items thread.

As regards the two orders of Tyr. I must admit to having missed a reference to 'non-lawful' aspects of Tyr in any of my previous research.

I have always understood the Knights of the Merciful Sword to be different only in that they emphasise the 'good' part of Lawful Good in their judgements where the Knights of Holy Judgement emphasise the 'lawful' part.

http://theisleofkev.com/dnd/books/Champ ... 0[OCR].pdf p102

Here's some food for thought:

http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.ex ... &P=R2&I=-3

The post details the GMs approach to a Sunite paladin in his own game. I realize that this type of paladin is closed to players in FK but I believe the approach to be interesting. Essentially, the GM chose to draft house rules assigning different vows, bonuses, and penalties to his player's Sunite paladin. This touches some subjects we've addressed on the boards (Vows of Poverty, for example: http://www.gallwey.com/fk/board/viewtop ... &sk=t&sd=a) and others in a similar spirit.

I realize that these kind of decisions are almost entirely the portfolio of administrators (Kelemvor in particular) but I believe the article to be, as I said above, just good food for thought. At any rate, it might be interesting for those who are GMing their own pen and paper games. Cheers.