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Here are the entries of this thread from the previous board. Thank you to the player who brought this to my attention. I am reposting the thread because goblin and gnoll skins (some already tanned) were found for sale by an elven storekeeper in Ardeep. - Janon

Kern mac Oengus:

With a few of these thoughts, I wasn't sure if they should be included in the thread 'Is the bug abuse', but since this skill is predominantly in a ranger's purview I'll put them here and let you decide.

This first one is one of those that could be considered to be bug abuse... On many many occasions I've visited the Tombs of Tempus in Waterdeep to find the corridors strewn with slices of meat. This can not be an appropriate use of the skill, since the majority of the mobs there are GHOSTS. Add to that the fact that even the creatures with a physical form from which you might slice meat are a) undead and b) humanoid and I have to ask how any ranger could have a legitimate IC reason to be using the skill.

Beyond this one example, I have my doubts about a ranger skinning or slicing meat from any of the sentient or humanoid races. There are plenty of mobs available on which to practice the skill, and if you are unsure - think about the types of food you can buy or armour you can wear to give an indication. Some creatures are already hard-coded to prevent skins or meat being derived from slicing them. I for one would not wish to see time wasted in doing the same for all mobs.
Slice of deer meat? appropriate. Cutting up a troll? come on, you're not really going to eat that so why cut it? The same goes for skins.... see anyone selling ogre-skin armour? Didn't think so....go hunt down a cow or an umber-hulk instead.

Over-riding all of this is the fact that rangers are good-aligned protectors of nature. Slicing up sentient beings is something you'd expect from a Malarite. More importantly, no ranger is going to slaughter the population of a wood to practice cutting meat and skins, so it's not really IC to hunt more often than you require food anyway.

I'm sure you all have opinions on this, and I look forward to hearing some positive responses

Kern

Mystra:

Actually rangers found slicing up things that are not IC may find they lose the skill. Here is our policy on slice. It is clearly stated in help slice.

-1 SLICE BUTCHER~

{D0}Syntax: slice <corpse>

{70}This skill slices meat from a corpse into food portions. It
also creates a skin that can then be tanned.

Note: Most corpses can be sliced but before eating the meat from
a creature, make sure it is IC for you to do so. For instance a
human ranger eating the flesh of another human would be seen to
be canabalistic by many.

{E0}*{70} This skill is affected by the type of armour you wear. Heavier armour
will increase the chance of failure in this skill.

FKMcShag:

I was just wondering about trolls. My characters always take the time to burn the troll corpse and limbs in fire to stop regen. Granted the trolls don't regen but it's fun RP. Anyway I was wondering with rangers if it's ok to RP slicing up the troll's corpse in order to burn the parts, using the slice skill, or if I should just limit my ranger to limbs I may have lopped off while fighting?

EDIT: Capitalised Y in MY made it look like I was trying to make a point.

Edited by: FKMcShag at: 3/6/03 10:07:12 pm

Mystra:

Well I would consider this good roleplay. Its not like you are eating it.

There needs to be a good IC reason behind the butchering. And what Rhelian mentions is a good one in my book.

Sharni


Mystra:

I do remember one ranger who ate everything he killed at least once. It was his roleplay that his ranger ate a part of his kill so that he could get a feel for his enemy races. He explained this IC to my ranger very clearly. Now this is not a normal roleplay and I don't want to see every ranger trying it just because this ranger did.

My point is, that sometimes there is good IC reason to be different from the standard. But you have to have good IC reason.

Sharni

A few comments:

Where do you thing gauntlets of ogre strength come from? And how are they fashioned? From deer skin or cow hide?

Also not all rangers are alike. Some roam the civilized country around citystates and others range from barbarian tribes. Who is to say what custom they may have with the vanquished dead. I agree that the meat might not consumed but the skin might be prized as a trophy or a useful comodity.

There are few shops willing to buy tanned hides. Imagine no leathershop willing to buy tanned hides, I am guessing they might have a trade agreement with the local tannery and not want to ruin it by purchasing hides off another. And I would hope that IC consquences would be appreciated as to why an elf would buy a tanned skin of a Goblinkin, only to just have proof of one less Goblinkin around.

You cant butcher the undead anymore. As I would guess at that it was to silly IC or OOC to have the skin/slice of a skeleton.

Tempus: edited to remove IC information and correct a factual inaccuracy.

Mingus, please do not add IC things into your comments such as location of shops. Janon only posted this for a guide to people who use the slice skill and not as a means to cause conflict. There are and always will be some small exceptions to every rule but we must not always assume that we can use these acceptions whenever we deem necessary as an excuse for our actions.

As of now all rangers ( as far as I know ) are of good alignment, so they should not skin humanoids and eat their meat. I can see some chaotic barbarian tribes ( mostly orc and goblinoid tribes ) using the skin of their defeated foes as trophy, clothing, meals, ect. But any ranger in the game right now should not be able to skin humanoids since it is not in a good-aligned character's role play to do so.

To Mingus: I'm not exactly sure where you got the "gauntlets of ogre strength" from. I've seen it on a Warcraft game, but not here. Even if they are an item of the Forgotten Realms, it could just be a name. The name to me doesn't imply that it actually came from an ogre's hide, but it makes you strong like an ogre.

mingus wrote:Also not all rangers are alike. Some roam the civilized country around citystates and others range from barbarian tribes. Who is to say what custom they may have with the vanquished dead. I agree that the meat might not consumed but the skin might be prized as a trophy or a useful comodity.

I suggest you reread the original post in this topic slightly more carefully than you obviously did the first time. Paying particular attention to the part where Mystra said My point is, that sometimes there is good IC reason to be different from the standard. But you have to have good IC reason.

Let me rephrase that for you. If you have a good and established IC reason for doing so, and you can present that reason to any enquiring souls, then fine. Note, however, that 'because I can' and 'It's IC for me to skin everything until such time as I GM the slice skill' are not considered suitable reasons.

mingus wrote:Where do you thing gauntlets of ogre strength come from? And how are they fashioned? From deer skin or cow hide?

To be quite frank, Mingus, I am fed up of having to close threads because of your deliberately argumentative and combatative style of writing. Especially when you are attempting to flame a member of the Newbie Council who was attempting to enlighten those who perhaps do not know any better. Further, the pertinent comments you were challenging constitute the policy as laid down by the game owners. I am closing this thread as yet again you have pushed it beyond the point where reasonable discussion can be held. I went to some trouble to post a guide on suitable behaviour in these forums, and i strongly suggest you read it. Further unnecessarily inflammatory posts may result in the removal of your ability to write in these forums.

Now that some of you have found the leathermaking trade, let me take this moment to restate our rule as put forth by Mystra. If you use humanoid creatures without some REALLY good IC reason for skinning/leathermaking, you are at high risk of our removing both skills from you.

Rangers and druids should not skin hill giants to practice their newfound trades. Nor should they slice/tan/etc. creatures in the above-mentioned categories. When I discover over 90 slices of ogre meat in one spot, that is both not only against the alignment of any ranger/druid, it is abuse.