The FK Nooby Experience So Far

[Pyranis]

Done.

[Horace]

It sucks, but without convincing someone to take you outside (which is embarrassing enough) - you can't really.

I remember when I first started I got to level 20 in the temple in less than 3 hours. Now I just clocked near 100 hours and just barely tipping 20...and that's with darn near 80% of that 100 being straight grinding. As far as I can tell that's what the early levels are now a days. All you can do is grind away, with the promise of all the great potential the game has to offer once your character is able to experience it without near immediate death. Admittedly, though, the only way I know the potential of the game is because I've had 3 or 4 characters experience much of it in many different ways - if I was in your shoes I'd see it as a giant time dump, like you said. To me I see it as an investment toward the hundreds of hours I'll have with the character before I retire him/her.

The mechanics of this game change often, which is a good thing, showing that the admins actually do care about trying to make the game balance correctly. The problem right now is that the leveling isn't consistent with how most progression with characters go. Levels 1 through 5 is about right, then 6 to 10 becomes quite a bit of a haul, 10 to 20 I think is the worst by far, then after 20 it begins to become more reasonable again.

I'm not sure if the problem is in how xp is given, or if it has to do with hp being low and crippling factors being much more likely when fighting a rat at level 10 than fighting a dragon at level 40. It has to have something to do with low levels of hp being distributed out through the damage zones - i dunno, but yeah, it's definitely something to look at.

I don't have any constructive advice, over what you've already said. What I can give you is the promise that the game is fluid, and that things change all the time in it. And that regardless of what changes come in mechanics, after you get to level 30 or so this mud is the best mud I've ever played. Unfortunately, right now, it's in a period where you just have to grind your hiney off trying to get to a point where you aren't getting limbs lopped off by scorpions/spiders/pixies.

I appreciate you posting - I think a lot of us see the game only through our own eyes, rarely do we get to read how the changes in mechanics and stuff like that effect player's who are relatively new to the system. You're the type of player we need to keep around.

[Saranya]

Welcome Pyranis! I know this can be a hard mud for new characters and I'm glad you are playing and hopefully having fun! Thank you so much for relaying your experiences on forum. It helps coders and others see what the current status is of the "tweaks." Finding the right balance is an ongoing effort that needs everyone's contribution!

Perhaps this is better addressed on the other thread regarding early levelling, but I'll add a few notes of my own here.

After some discussion about the issues raised in the other thread I started a test character to see for myself. This was a basic fighter, so I figured would have an easier time of progressing. There seems to me to be a gap now in levelling areas for characters past the temple stage but before the non-Waterdeep/Silverymoon sewers. I found that progression from level 1-9 against dummies and Waterdeep sewer mobs was not too terrible. It was a bit more frustrating to lev 15, but I was still able to progress. Then those mobs stopped granting experience.

The show stopper for my character is the aggro giant spiders, which at now a somewhat buff lev 18, my test fighter still can not solo. I think the "natural weapons" has been tweaked down, but perhaps there is still an issue with that mob? Certainly with these guys I do not feel the Daggerford & Berdusk sewers quite qualify as "low-level" areas anymore. Also the various temple dummies either grant no experience or instant-kill me. Other newbie areas are just out of the question.

In addition, would it be worthwhile to re-visit experience gains while formed with higher-level characters? Forming is the obvious answer to hard mobs, but as Pyranis pointed out, it just doesn't work. I found it especially hard to find characters to form with who were near enough my own level to grant any experience at all.

I have had this character travel a bit, and I'll just further comment that all these problems are exacerbated as I leave Waterdeep and find fewer people to help. Some day when I'm feeling masochistic I'll do a test char in the Underdark.

[Briek]

i definately agree with all these comments, myself i started playing the mud and hit gold with my first character which was probably bout 8 months to a year ago that i made him now but since then i have tried several other characters that i think would have been great to RP but i just can't get them out of the newbie training area or they just die fighting bandits and such. I agree with horace that once you get out of the rut that is levels 1-20 then this MUD becomes one of the best DnD related text games ever i would just say that all the levels need going over in turn and making sure that the exp needed is progressive compared to the likely mobs that they are going to be fighting.

[Selveem]

I'll offer my own experience:

I made a new character, a Dwarf Priest, to test this out myself. I thought to myself that there are no other Dwarven smiths able to create masterwork-equivelent equipment and weapons anymore, so I figured I'd fill the gap and test the complaints as well.

144 hours later of almost completely solid grinding, I am level 21.

Sure, I could have gotten much higher by now (because I know of a few places that give great experience and are relatively easy), but other players wouldn't know this. Especially new ones.

Thus, I've pretty much stuck to the sewers.

This has been mostly fruitless with a couple of close calls due to running into some aggressive mobs or other mobs jumping in and joining the fray.

I will admit that I have noticed a large increase of experience from grouping compared to soloing. That seems much more viable, but I regret to admit that alone I feel my Dwarf is almost utterly useless.

I don't know your race/class or how you've set up your stats, Pyranis, but I can tell you that it's been noted that having higher Cha and Wis increase your experience. I only have the luxury of having my wisdom high, but my charisma dirt low (Dwarves get a significant negative to Charisma mod) probably negates that high wisdom bonus.

That being said, I will echo the response of others for the opportunity of our staff to address this issue. I hope you don't give up and that I get the chance to meet you in-game.

[Nysan]

Comparing my older characters to a few of my newer projects, I understand your experiences well. It is a bumpy road these days.

Side thought, I am laughing at Selveem's post. Nothing personal, just the idea of "hey, I want to make a master smith". I respect your desire to do it, but good lord is that a long road to travel. I know all the time I have put into Gilain's trades and all I can say is good luck (is nice to see imms checking in on me to make sure I am not a bot. I like the sandwiches). Leveling has nothing compared to certain trades when it comes to time sinks.

OP, best of luck on whatever game you land on.

[Nedylene]

I'll toss in the towel. I have made two newer characters over the last months. One wizard, one rogue. One HUGE change I have discovered from the "olden days" to now is that... it is EASIER to level my wizard. Before they used to be next to impossible as you were dieing every hour of training. That said however, I do have to be very careful where I take her. Only the sewer system of two cities can she survive, the other three I am mince meat.

The biggest problem I have is traveling. Plain simple bandits I can handle. Bandit clerics ... More challenging. Bandit wizards.. *waves the white flag* They can slaughter my level 18 character with hardly a blink of an eye. Now I need to confess that I rp more then I level. My wizard (unguilded) has 89 hours right now and is level 14. My rogue (unguilded) is 82 hours and she is level 13... 2/3rd of the time was spent rping.

In regards to the training levels in temples there were some people testing this. With regular characters on both my wizard and my rogue I was unable to get to level 10 without leaving the temple. My wizard made it to level 6 in temples then exp just.... Stopped. My rogue made it to level 8 when exp just stopped, desisted, sorry no dice. I was forced to go into sewers and very carefully pick my way, kill one, rest, kill another rest mix and repeat. It's slow, it's a bit tedious but I find it doable because I spend the majority of my time rping. I have been happy with my characters, happy with their interaction and I am having fun. This post... is probably a bunch of hogwash and means nothing as it does not quite address the problems. I guess I am more of the mindset that out of 50 levels.. Why rush it? There is so much to do on this game, so many people to interact with and so much you can accomplish that does not involve grinding/leveling. EXP DOES jump up and you do get more for your time and effort but sometimes you have to leave the temple early and grab a hanfdul of newbies and invade the sewers... or howling peaks. Have fun with it.. Joke with it.. Tell Bob he just stepped in bat guano or Sally Mae that she has a spider in her hair. Make leveling/fighting etc an adventure in it's own.

[Selveem]

There are many reasons to want to get to 10.

For one, you can't join any guilds until level 10 as a wizard (and perhaps other classes).

Two, you can't go very far. And if you try, careful not to die to bandits. We expect newbies to know this immediately?

Three, staying one level at such an early point in a character's career may make some people feel stagnant. Honestly, I feel that way sometimes, too. This is why I eventually leveled up Goreign some more.

I understand some people like to level slowly, but that is no reason to me to make leveling be such a grind for everyone. For me, I have to level my Dwarf because, quite honestly, mining takes up a lot of stamina and I don't feel like sleeping every single I attempt to mine once for 6 minutes to regain the stamina to attempt it again.

[Pyranis]

Done.

[Horace]

Only way to really check with the armor is to check your "defence" often.

The "problem" with armor isn't that it doesn't work, but that if you aren't fully suited in it you'll just get hit all the time in the lowest armored spot...which is much worse than being less armored and having the damage spread out. Unless this has changed.

[Harroghty]

Despite the fact that I am shocked to see my character's tunic cut when he is hit with a blunt weapon in a suit of plate, I still believe there is some value to armor.

If I were to walk my character into an area without armor, or with lighter armor, he takes significantly more damage than he does with it. In some areas this isn't immediately obvious because the damage potential isn't very great to begin with, but in some area with (let's say) armed mobiles of a relatively challenging nature you notice it dramatically.

I am bemused still at the damage that is done (i.e. a cheap slashing weapon cutting the chest of a man wearing a magical breastplate and heavy plate armor everywhere else) but this is, in part, the nature of the beast. You wouldn't survive two gunshot wounds in real life that you would receive in many video games with no effects beyond a very vague percentage of damage done, much less the amount of shots it actually takes to kill your character, but this is a game and there is some necessary willing suspension of disbelief.

I concur that the game works in cycles and agree with you; it can be frustrating right now to start a new character and battle up-hill, but the solution is to travel with other people. You don't need a level 50 babysitter to take you all over the place but you a group of level 20 friends with you accomplishing quests makes them practicable and, I believe, adds to the fun.

[Mele]

While frustration is respected let me say this:

The player council is a group of MORTAL players who are a non-paid volunteer group of people answering questions about game mechanics. They cannot fix your leveling problem. They cannot make you level quicker. They are not here to get sworn at or dumped on because you are frustrated you leveled more quickly on your MMO. By no means is there any reason or right to take out frustration on mortal players who volunteer to help new and old players with questions.

[Pyranis]

Mmkay.

First to tackle the "swearing at" comment. Question guy said my question got cut off, I jokingly said it was just more b******g coming from me. Sorry, I wasn't aware that everyone was so sensitive to naughty words.

Secondly, I didn't "dump on" anyone. I think the "Thank you for 78 hours of bliss" comment might have been rude, but I hardly see it as "dumping on" anyone.

Thank you for trying to villainize me though. I appreciate it.

Side note: Thanks to all the really helpful question channel people who had so much patience with me. Also thanks to the people I interacted with. If you were offended it wasn't my attention. <3.

[Selveem]

I'm certain that accusing and guilt-tripping our new players is a sure-fire way to retain them.

That sounds about right... *peer*

Pyranis, dispite that some may view your post as a complaint, I believe it a valid matter to be addressed. I think it is admirable that instead of just walking away, you've offered your chance to try and allow our staff to make adjustments.

Please do not get overly discouraged and thank you for your posts.

[Nysan]

While frustration is respected let me say this:

The player council is a group of MORTAL players who are a non-paid volunteer group of people answering questions about game mechanics. They cannot fix your leveling problem. They cannot make you level quicker. They are not here to get sworn at or dumped on because you are frustrated you leveled more quickly on your MMO. By no means is there any reason or right to take out frustration on mortal players who volunteer to help new and old players with questions.

Very true. Trilev has free tarts for the player council members.

[Saranya]

FWIW, to anyone who cares, I have not found Pyranis to be anything but polite and sweet-tempered when dealing with what many of us agree can be the frustrating experience of establishing a new character. As far as I have ever seen, he uses the appropriate game resources in the manner intended, and I personally very much appreciate his feedback and the continued good temper & humour that I have witnessed. Thank you Pyranis, and again, welcome!

(*sigh* But I just can't stand to see yet another new player be saddled with an unwarranted reputation as a troublemaker....)

[Moloch]

Let us not make this about one person, as it is clearly not. This is about the general newbie experience.

Thanks.

[Lathander]

Pyranis, what would you change and how.

We've heard the suggestions of all these mainstay players many times over. What do you, as a new player suggest?

Despite the honest attempts of longer-term players to create new characters and comment on the experience, those longer-term players cannot recreate for themselves the NEW experience of FK. I include myself and any imm in this. We can do our best to be objective, but we know too much, we aren't seeing it through the same eyes.

How cool would it be to have an army of Pyranians go through our mud and give their thoughts; especially, if they could also be shielded from all of the IM culture and just focus on their personal mud experiences. Ahhhhh, to dream.

[Pyranis]

Remove the fact that you lose all of your exp when you die or flee for the duration of the time you're in the temple. Having to kill a few mobs, rest for a few minutes, repeat for a few hours and then have a dummy focus your head and wimpy not to work is pretty harsh. I know I have died on this level from similar things happening like three times now, each time more infuriating.

Possibly more movement points so that the downtime between everything you do isn't so long. I know this tacks on a lot of extra time when training when you have to rest after every 2-3 kills.

Maybe change that dummies kill people and just have them incapacitate them when they reach a certain % and end combat.

Add a lesson to the training areas about how each armor type works in conjunction with your stats. I know I spent a ton of money on armor that doesn't seem to work at all. Along the same lines, note the effectiveness of doing things to your armor such as refitting it and armor cantrips. Every time I go to the temple I have my expensive chainmail on with the armor spell on and I'm still getting killed with nothing to really show for it other than a lack of money.

Work is rapidly approaching, I'll write more later if you want but I'm sure I got the big ones.

[Lathlain]

I'd also like to add to Pyranis' list by resurrecting a previous discussion on the availability level of meditate. Specifically for mages, the fact that they must wait until they've passed that initial level boundary in order to train it is a serious hindrance as far as downtime is concerned. If it could be trained at level 1 - or even be an innate ability for spellcasters - that would make life much easier.

Actually it's not so much a resurrection of the discussion as me saying 'It would be an ace idea - you know you want to!'