Forgotten Kingdoms Forums

From http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/gatherInformation.htm

WotC wrote:Check
An evening’s time, a few gold pieces for buying drinks and making friends, and a DC 10 Gather Information check get you a general idea of a city’s major news items, assuming there are no obvious reasons why the information would be withheld. The higher your check result, the better the information.

If you want to find out about a specific rumor, or a specific item, or obtain a map, or do something else along those lines, the DC for the check is 15 to 25, or even higher.

See also: epic usages of Gather Information.

Action
A typical Gather Information check takes 1d4+1 hours.

Try Again
Yes, but it takes time for each check. Furthermore, you may draw attention to yourself if you repeatedly pursue a certain type of information.

Special
A half-elf has a +2 racial bonus on Gather Information checks.

If you have the Investigator feat, you get a +2 bonus on Gather Information checks.

So, here's my suggestion: Rumors! Info! Lovely stuff. I've seen similar used on other games and it can actually work quite well. People write their own submissions to the 'gossip/rumor mill' including various degrees of success. For example, and this is just something rough off the top of my head, as I don't know exactly how your coding works... but...

Maldrin, a rogue with novice levels of Gather Information goes into the Singing Sword. He saddles up at the bar and nods to the Innkeeper, "What news ye be hearin' o' late mah friend?" The innkeeper stares blankly at Maldrin, until he sees the shiney gold coin under Maldrin's hand. "Well, latest I heard is....." Okay, so, depending on what type of command you enter, you could get various info.... 'rumor city' would be just stuff that players have entered into the rumor mill for that city, and when writing the info, they could enter the differant levels, DC20 A child went missing DC25 A child is rumored to have been stolen by A Cyrican priest. DC30 It's been said that <name> took a child to <city>

Again, these are just examples. Another suggestion would be 'info <player>' and, depending on the level of success you could get as much info as say where that player was 'rumored' to be seen last. IE it could give the room name. Lower success could be stuff like the character's adjective, then description, next success their equipment, etc. Each higher level of success granting more info, and each attempt costing a set, or even variable, amount, based on charisma. In addition, a chunk of 'movement/stamina' to denote time spent on the effort, or a small delay. After all, the rules say 1 hour, which to us is 5 mins.[Edit]Oops, 2-5 hours. Okay, a little bigger, but still.. a lot of 'time' things float on here, it's a MUD, right?.[/Edit] Not a big deal.

One final fun possibility.. a chance, increasing with each attempt, that the person you're seeking info on catches wind of it. Maybe their chances being higher if they themselves have a Gather Info skill, "Hey Maldrin, Xerxes the 3rd was in here just the other day asking about you...."

This would also be a fun and interesting way for IMMs to integrate plots into the game, by writing their own 'rumor <city>/general/<race>/<organization(of which PC must be member maybe)>' etc type posts, which could have a 'shelf life'... maybe the longer time passes, the harder it is to get rumors, and after a time they just disappear entirely.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Amendments? I'd love to hear em, and I think this could be a great tool.

I think the biggest problem would be the necessity of upkeep on such a task. Events happen very often, and blow over in many cases within the night - it'd be a lot of work.

I guess what I could see it do, is maybe less to do with player events, and more to do with quest locations. I have CDO (it's like OCD but in the correct order), so I've found damn near every quest I can, but tons of players have no drive to do so, and just take what they come across. Something like this, I'd rather be a command, and not based on a skill. Maybe a charisma check.

Player enters command *news* - npc check charisma 9 or higher, "I heard a traveler speak of a Halfling near The Spire who is looking for a fellowship to accompany him to Nordor".

This way, once it is inputted, it will always serve a purpose for as long as the quest stays in the game. Quite a bit of work for a short period of time, compared to quite a bit of work all the time....nonstop...for all eternity.

That'd be my idea for it. I'd change it to charisma/payment check because this skill would be awkward to train up to higher levels, and I don't think DC's are great because you could just do it over and over...without an IMM present I dislike DC checks for this reason (for noncombat).

Horace wrote:I think the biggest problem would be the necessity of upkeep on such a task. Events happen very often, and blow over in many cases within the night - it'd be a lot of work.

I guess what I could see it do, is maybe less to do with player events, and more to do with quest locations. I have CDO (it's like OCD but in the correct order), so I've found damn near every quest I can, but tons of players have no drive to do so, and just take what they come across. Something like this, I'd rather be a command, and not based on a skill. Maybe a charisma check.

Player enters command *news* - npc check charisma 9 or higher, "I heard a traveler speak of a Halfling near The Spire who is looking for a fellowship to accompany him to Nordor".

This way, once it is inputted, it will always serve a purpose for as long as the quest stays in the game. Quite a bit of work for a short period of time, compared to quite a bit of work all the time....nonstop...for all eternity.

That'd be my idea for it. I'd change it to charisma/payment check because this skill would be awkward to train up to higher levels, and I don't think DC's are great because you could just do it over and over...without an IMM present I dislike DC checks for this reason (for noncombat).

I can concede your point with the DC thing, but notice, there -would- be a cost attached. Maybe as high as 1plat for each time attempting to use the command, depending on which variant of the command it is.

However, in cannon, the skill isn't about just news, for one thing...

For another, if written correctly, the 'rumors' would auto-delete after a set amount of time, the same would occur with the events thing. As far as events that blow over, this would be a way for people to obtain IC information about said events without their buddies neccesarily telling them, although the info on the rumormill would be volunterily added. I think what I'm trying to say is, I'm missing exactly where the upkeep or maintenance difficulties would occur based on the proposal as I made it. Explain/expand please?

Would it be possible instead to make some sort of...application, to do research about a topic?

I mean not just 'I go to a library and read up on the planes!' but 'I spend some time drinking in the low dives and dirty taverns on the Waterfront and ask around about {name of PC rogue}' or even 'I ask lots of people and learn all they know about {name of PC}'?

Just a suggestion, but as has been mentioned, the upkeep for latest-rumor mill might be a bit much, but specific requests for information could do better?

Don't shoot me, anyone?

where the upkeep or maintenance difficulties would occur based on the proposal as I made it. Explain/expand please?

Staff would have to update the rumors often. Storylines pass through so quickly, a month down the road it has almost no affect on anyone who wasn't involved. And if the rumor can be heard at any NPC in any tavern, it may as well just be posted on the IC bulletin board and OOC message board (which a few newspapers do a fine job at doing).

I think I was thinking more along the lines of bribing NPC's to 'fess up character's dirty secrets and hidden pasts, or the kind of information that is generally 'hidden' rather than 'published'. To me, Gather Information isn't just about the rumours you can find out fairly easily by reading a paper but by actually talking to the right people for the specifics you need on a topic. Like, asking the maids and servants of the house if the master's habits have changed of late, or if anyone's seen a small, squalling baby being ushered into the temple hurriedly...something that the asked party -might- answer, or might decide is intrusive and get offended by or refuse to speak about.

Unless the outcome of the event puts a PC in the limelight and a target for future evil attacks, or puts the PC evil in the limelight for future persuing by good PC's to stand trial for something. Speaking of IC events made by PC's

I was on a mud a long time ago that had something like this. It was maintained by Bards that posted or removed rumors as they seen fit. It was a great way to start a rp rumor of who is engage or who is cheating on who or general gossip. It cost a few coins to get a random rumor but to her your love been seen hanging around so-so was a intresting rp.

Indeed. That's one of the reasons I think the integration of this skill would be so great. There's so many differant levels of information that can be gleaned, from the basic rumor on the street, to that deep dark secret. This would also, in my opinion, encourage good RPers to fill out bios, if they knew it was possible someone might actually read it.

It doesn't have to be about PC-generated events, either. You could have "rumours" that point towards specific quests (I know we have similar in-game rumours already, eg a certain wandering mob in Waterdeep). It could spark off some adventurous RP eg "I say chaps! This barman has just told me the proprietor of [self-censorship of tavern name] is plagued by marauding goblins! Apparently the guards there will pay good coin for those who help! He wasn't too specific on the details, but I think it could be worth a gander! For 2 gold he said he'll give us directions! What say you, my fine fellows?"
I also like the thought of being able to learn more / track down well-known PCs. It could help young hopefuls in tracking down a faith manager, for example, or in learning more about a player from "the other side of the tracks" (eg a Mystran wants to learn more about the higher members of the Cyricist faith). The sort of stuff that would be gossiped about in pubs anyway; ways to make money adventuring, heroic tales of famous folks, who's stepping out with who etc.

I appreciate it would take a lot of work to keep the PC-led news relevant, but it's certainly an interesting idea.

Leveran wrote: If you want to find out about a specific rumor, or a specific item, or obtain a map, or do something else along those lines, the DC for the check is 15 to 25, or even higher.

Just occured to me, this could be done similar to the locate object spell. Pay a plat and get a similar result.

I suppose I was thinking that might work better on a more individual basis rather than being directly coded. Perhaps?

Elke wrote:I suppose I was thinking that might work better on a more individual basis rather than being directly coded. Perhaps?

Couple reasons why that doesn't work so well... For one, if you're trying to secretly gather information on your enemies.. you don't want to just come out and ask them.. secondly, asking anything in otell/osay etc is considered OOC info...

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying?

What was going on in my head was something along the lines of the routine for a regular LARP I used to play back at Uni. On specific days there were actual LARP events but between the events you submitted an email to the refs for your characters downtime actions between events. Specifically, a lot of people asked for research to be done and investigated each other's actions and other similar things related to the sort of actions 'Gather Information' would cover.

What was going through my mind was that, say, I wanted to find out about a character's past, Bob. I'd heard Bob was raised in...I don't know, an orphanage near Shadowdale or something. The process would then be something like, an email is sent in saying, "I am visiting this orphanage and talking with all the cleaning ladies and seeing who remembers Bob and asking for any juicy anecdotes they have." Then you recieve a response, maybe 'the cleaning ladies won't talk to you' or maybe 'Back in his dissolute youth, Bob may in fact have sired an illegitimate daughter!" or something. So that research like that could be an on-an-individual basis information request rather than a coded thing, which might be a little difficult?

Similarly, someone wants to discover the specifics of plot event A, they might submit a similar email saying something like, 'I ask all the cleaning ladies of the, uh, evil temple, if they heard a new kidnapped victim fitting -this- description being brought in?" All right, I'm not being very serious here but I hope I'm conveying the jist. It would mean you could interact with NPC's a little more without there necessarily needing to be imms about and any action that is deemed silly or impossible can just be vetoed or, worse, lead to IC consequences. For example, you get some information, but then angry priests come visit you when you next log in to be pointedly hostile at you for asking too many questions.

Or perhaps you want to do some research on members of your opponent faith, and you send in an email saying, "I go to the Harpers! With a big pile of gold and a suitable reason to persuade them to tell me what their eyes-and-ears network has discovered!"

I have no idea how practical this idea would be or if it isn't really perfectly possible already, but I do think that it might be a more workable solution than trying to code secrets and information that would be changing fairly frequently. It would mean that the information was available on a supplied-to-demand basis as well rather than being given out to someone who has put in no more effort than typing a command.

I really, really, really like this idea and think it has a lot of potential. Its just the practicality of how it works out, now!

Ahh I follow you now Elke. In fact, I played in a LARP where similar things were possible (World of Darkness, per chance?).

I also have played on Shadowrun MUXes where such things were possible. They were generally called 'legwork' apps. Say you had a Run coming up, and you wanted to know about the security of the place. You'd send your Face archetype character (Think literally of Face from the A-Team) who would scope out the target place, observe who came and went, maybe tail a likely mark to a bar, liquor them up, and see what sort of information could be gleaned. While I like the possibilities of the idea here, I'm still a bit confused as to who would then supply the information, IMMs or PCs? If it is IMMs, I'd be a bit more on the hesitant side, as the IMMs already seem to quite have their hands full, and adding a plethora of applications for info would make it more difficult. That's why I was suggesting a coded system.. -However- maybe a coded system that could on rare occasions be augmented by an App (maybe with say, a variable Glory Point cost determined by the IMM answering the question, and maybe you could bid saying "I"ll spend up to 5 Glory on this". This to me would be similar to pulling strings based on favors given in the past, or your reputation).

No, it was a homebrew very similar to it though!

As I said, I'm not sure about the practicalities and it's not something you'd want to offer lightly. I also feel very strongly that this should be a social skill rather than something just anyone could do, because to be honest it's always going to be easier for the silver-tongued bard with high Charisma to get the information than the hopeful but bumbling wizard with all their earnestness but only slightly sub-par charisma, say.

Lerytha wrote:I really, really, really like this idea and think it has a lot of potential. Its just the practicality of how it works out, now!

Practicality? I'm just a dreamer and idea guy. Stuff like 'practicality' is for Roana and Dalvyn <.<

Elke wrote:No, it was a homebrew very similar to it though!

As I said, I'm not sure about the practicalities and it's not something you'd want to offer lightly. I also feel very strongly that this should be a social skill rather than something just anyone could do, because to be honest it's always going to be easier for the silver-tongued bard with high Charisma to get the information than the hopeful but bumbling wizard with all their earnestness but only slightly sub-par charisma, say.

I'd agree that this should be a rogue skill, bard/thief only.

Leveran wrote:Stuff like 'practicality' is for Roana and Dalvyn <.<

I'm not sure whether to be flattered or insulted! Actually, anything that bundles me with Dalvyn I'll take as a compliment! That said, I now feel called upon to consider the practicalities of this idea.

My first reaction is that before any sort of coded implementation, it should be tried on a basis not unlike that described by Elke and Zuldere (and suggested early-on by Elke, with the caveat that Horace raised being the main sticking point) - a sub-class of applications around things one's character would like to do that the code won't let you do. Make a knockoff of some object, ask a question of some NPC, or try to get the dirt on some topic, describing how you plan to go about it. If the last (or any of these types of things, actually) proves popular and exhibits staying power (not a passing fad), then the pattern of past usage will make it far easier to determine what code support, if any, could make it work better.

I think such applications are already legit, but I also think few have seen much follow-up. At this point I believe the question becomes whether the resources are available to allow more such applications to be acted upon. For that, I don't have an answer.