Forgotten Kingdoms Forums

Soooo, I had yet another idea for a suggestion:

Spell research library. A place where wizards can go to learn spells, without a trainer. Before thinking about how unbalancing this would/could be, please, hear me out

Platinum costs: 500(or more) plat to join the library. Membership could/should also require a quest, sorta like a Trade skill. In fact, instead of membership requiring a quest, let's just say that: Research is a trade skill, requires a quest to complete. Non-membership doesn't bar acccess, but doubles the following the price of using the library.

Basic fee for members = 5 plat per IC day. Researching a spell would take 1 IC day per spell level, per point...

Example, if you want to research Magic Missile 1: spell level 1, first point, it would cost 5*1*1 = 5 plat and 1 IC day. 2nd point would require 2 days of research, and thus 10 plat.
Example 2, fireball. Level 3 spell, first point 15 plat + 3 IC days. 2nd point 30 plat and 6 IC days.

Max researchable for -any- spell would be 5 points.

Final stipulation: In order to research a spell, you would need spell level +12 int.(IE 2 higher than required to cast said spell).. that means to research a level 9 spell, 1 point, would require 45 plat (for members mind you, 90 for non) 9 IC days (18 RL hours) and an int of 21.

Also, while researching a spell, no other actions can be taken except eatting and drinking. Codewise, this would work sorta like being in jail. Can't go anywhere, and every few hours an attendant brings you food and drink (part of your 5 plat a day =P). Time passes whether on the character or not.

Now, I think these things make it prohibitive enough that someone isn't going to run to the research library casually. This is a last resort for finding a spell that just isn't available to someone any other way, but that they REALLY really want. Perhaps such a library/research center could be at Candlekeep, where Mystra's mages keep peace. All who seek knowledge of the weave are welcome. Any who do any harm to any other in this place are executed, their body burned, and their souls punished by Mystra.. or something equally severe.

Perhaps, it could also be used to research "wizardly" trades, like brew, scribe, and staff/wand making (when added). At the moment, it is just about impossible for evils to get those trades.

Julthain wrote:Perhaps, it could also be used to research "wizardly" trades, like brew, scribe, and staff/wand making (when added). At the moment, it is just about impossible for evils to get those trades.

At the moment its impossible for anyone to get scribe for lack of anyone having it high enough to train I believe. Not sure about brew. Hmm researching would be interesting perhaps. Rewards for good wizardly rp you get a token to research one spell? I know a couple really good rped wizards that are evil definately shoe ins!

I really like the idea, and I like all the restrictions that were put on it. But at the same time, I don't want people to be able to go any spell they choose. I think if this was done, the spells should be limited...Don't cut off ALL the high level ones, but I like some spells being offered as rp rewards and such. And I would make this a one time thing so the wizard really had to choose what to use up the opportunity on. The restrictions you set would limit what all could be researched and how much it was done, but a wizard like Gesine has the time, and the coin to go there and research every spell she doesn't know. I like some wizards knowing some spells and other wizards not having access to them. Sure, Gesine is jealous ICly, but I oocly like that there are differences between her and other wizards, even the evil ones that have spells she can't get the access to. I like things that separate characters and make them different. If a character wants to spend the time and the coin to do this once, that is fine by me. People will choose different spells, but I wouldn't want people to have the opportunity to do it more than once.

I think this might help to promote rp a bit as people find out that others have researched and studied those hard to find spells. Leveran is rumored to have learned polar ray. Suddenly he's swarmed with people trying to apprentice to him and learn from him. I think that would be fun.

I think this is a good idea. I'd just like it limited as to what spells you could research, and how many times you could do it. Personally, I don't want to see it to be made available more than once, unless maybe you are given some special rp reward or something to do it again. I know with the restrictions you placed it would be hard for a wizard to research every spell they do not know, but I really don't even want it to be an option. That is probably just me though.

Personally I like this idea a lot, and I like it being perhaps a token system. Have the token being the level of spell they can choose to learn, and perhaps have that level only available once like Aveline said. This would promote people to spend time in the Library, researching such and roleplaying with other wizards. Or going out on adventurers. What I was also thinking and I gave this idea to another player, maybe have a seminar once a month in the Library on a random spell of choice by the IMM. Also maybe have spell focus able to be trianed as well on that spell with the Guest Lecturer incase those wizards that really like Polymorph or really likes the spell of fireball can focus their knowledge on it to become the best fireball in the realms.

Great thinking on this Leveran, I like the idea a lot. It opens RP possibilities and allows for some randomness that will allow for creative characters to be formed. (Not that there isn't some already.)

Well, I actually very much like the suggestions offered by both Aveline and Grouke. I can understand where Aveline is coming from, but I think one and only one spell, ever, might be a bit limiting. I do somewhat, however, like the idea of one spell per spell level. Still quite limiting, but not as bad. This would also allow for certain 'themes'. Mephisto the fire mage. Leveran the Necromancer. So-and-so the Conjurer of Poodles. W/e... this would still limit it greatly, but give a little more leeway than only once ever. Sort of a happy middle-ground.

I also like the idea of the once a month visit. Wouldn't be that hard to code/build, either. Could even be built into the zone that once an IC month, or RL month, depending, that the NPC appears for like 24 hours and can train a random spell (random from a list, anyway). These spells wouldn't neccesarily be SUPER hard to find ones, and certainly not quest ones, but maybe this particular instructor can train any skill that he can do higher than virtually any other trainer. IE to Journeyman, or even Master.

A furhter restriction that would make this more doable could be if they are a specialist it has to be of there school of said token level or below.

But if it's a mage who is a generalist they could have ..a special token that is given to them with the name of a magical sphere of schools like give token "Evocation to Gesine" She can then research one spell of evocation I think the rp to go along with sitting there researching maybe have her apprentices..-just an example here- helping her research and when all the work and effort is done voila! its a chance she gets it a chance she doesn't don't make it a sure thing for as in life crap happens and sometimes power slips through your fingers.

I wouldn't restrict specialists to their school. Seems to me that would just give mages another advantage over specialists. I would even say that if they did choose to research a spell from their school that maybe a few of the restrictions could be loosened up a bit for them. Keep it tough for mages no matter what spell they choose. Heck, I wouldn't even be opposed to making it a little harder on mages. Since they have so many spells and such on their mind it might take them a bit longer to get a handle on a certain spell then it would someone who specializes in that area. Gesine might not be a happy camper if that is how it works, but I wouldn't mind. Makes sense that a spell of their specialization may come a bit easier to them. Maybe they wouldn't have to spend as much time or as much coin. And I still think this should just be a one time thing. And then maybe have it understood that you could possibly (but it would rarely happen) have another chance at it through very special circumstances. A reward for a rp event, or something else like that.

Unfortunately, having it be strictly one time defeats the purpose of having it at all, in my opinion. Yes, Gesine has all the time and coin in the world to spend at a place like this, and I'm sure others do also. But that's your/their choice, to choose if it's also IC for them to do so. Think about it though, what else do wizards of great power do? They teach, and they learn. I don't think that if you're able to do so, it's a negative thing as such. It just shows that you've reached a level of ability virtually unrivaled.

Once again, though, I think one of the biggest balancing factors in this would be the fact that you can only train a spell up to 5 points, out of 25 for GM. Even the most basic trainers can go up to 10, generally. In addition, any spell that is by quest currently would still be. I just don't see the downsides being as great as the benefits for the MUD as a whole.

That would make more sense yes..hmm it could be that if you are a specialist and research a spell of your school it is cheaper less time and easier to accomplish but if it's out of your school takes more time, coin, and a lesser chance at success. That would mean mages have it harder and specialist have it easier if its within there own bits. I'd also restrict how many spells you could learn in each spell lvl the less the higher the spell lvl. While you can keep trying till you reach that set max amount of learning so not everyone could twink coin and blow it all getting every spell.

I definitely agree with Aveline that there needs to be a limitation on how many spells or how much can be researched there, but it does sounds like a great idea! (And Elke would -happily- contribute research hours towards Gesine's researching a new spell - she's already been Enig's guinea pig... )

The only problem with this is that it doesn't solve the problem of spells being hard to find at low levels. I am quite, quite happy to have to search and struggle to find a teacher of any spell of higher than fifth level. But by rights, and surely logically, lower level spells should be much easier to find teachers for, and more teachers of.

Not that it doesn't make it a great idea for researching high level spells!

I also definitely agree it should be easier for a specialist to research a spell of their own school. That would make magery suddenly far less attractive, and it would make perfect sense!

As a slightly random but mostly relevant addendum to the above, is there any news at all on the teacher/scholar application feats? Elke has the first level of the Teacher feat and I'd like her to take at least the first Scholar feat at some point, in fact have been hoarding a feat point especially for that purpose. Are applications for those still closed?

Hmm... 1 spell only limit seems a bit harsh. Little to no benefit to the game to go through with coding and putting it into the game if your PC could only get 1 spell out of it. I say, perhaps a limit of 1 spell per year (1 month real time) is able to be researched, and only up to amateur level.

I personally think it should only be a certain number of spells per level, the lower the level the more you can research, the higher the level the lower the number of spells you can research. We want to keep that sort of randomness, and the promotion of rp through teaching rp.

Xus wrote:Hmm... 1 spell only limit seems a bit harsh. Little to no benefit to the game to go through with coding and putting it into the game if your PC could only get 1 spell out of it. I say, perhaps a limit of 1 spell per year (1 month real time) is able to be researched, and only up to amateur level.

Having the once a month limitation for how often you can research is good, too. It rewards longevity in players, and is conducive, to an extent, with what I said before about old wizards getting more powerful. However, I think that again, if this limiting factor is placed on, others perhaps should be changed. 500 plat for something you can use once per RL month seems rough. Maybe 50 would be more fair in this scenario.

Also, given this scenario, what do people think about improving spells they have learned from other areas, once per RL month/IC Year, in essence maxing it out for their guild. IE mages still can't GM, but can get it to whatever the normal cap would be for them, and a conjurer could GM conjuration spells, but not others, etc. I'm not saying that one usage of the research library would allow for that, but perhaps up to 5 points per 'research session' in any given spell?

Elminster says, "Ah, look here Khelben. Remember that other dimension I told you about? Some hoser named Gandalf the Gray? Well, turns out, he had a method of casting continual light that nobody else did. Perhaps if I..."