Forgotten Kingdoms Forums

Cyric says, OOC, 'The forum will go through certain topics. At the end of each topic, I'll open the floor to questions or comments.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'First area I'd like to cover is the biggest and concerns everyone. PC's stealing from PC's.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Btw, I'm changing the colour of my says because the glare in my room is REALLY killing me.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'A while ago, we had a rash of players whom though it was alright to create players whom RP was totally based on compulsive stealing.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'ie. Cleptomaniacs'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Now, this is roleplay and there ARE people in the world that are like this, however --'

Cyric says, OOC, 'They end up in little white padded rooms In FR world, it is much like this.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'On an OOC note, this does nothing but hurt the mud. More and more players become equitment hogs and it just creates a hostile mud enviroment.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Also, it's abusive to the code if you hide, get caught stealing, and repeat the process until you retrieve the item you want from someone's inv.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Once or twice is believeable. But five times in a row? Wouldn't you think they would catch you sooner or later?'


Cyric says, OOC, 'Almost to the questions portion. =) Sorry, but this is the largest and more important part.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Now, as for ICly using steal, just remember that it is an aggressive command and should be used as such.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Just like kick and punch, it'll get you hurt. From pc's and npc's alike.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'On the flip-side, I want to stress to others who are being stolen from not to instantly kill the thief.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Instead, roleplay it out.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Once in a while, you will get a twink thief who will run and not pay ANY attention to emotes or says. This would be the situation to stun first, roleplay when the player comes too.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Alright... Those are all the notes I have on Players stealing from Players. Any questions about that topic? Raise your hand, I'll call on you.'

You say, OOC, 'Stun is also an aggressive "tactic" so will the guards side with the thief, with the stunner or will both be subject to the justice code?'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Good question. I believe the guards will side with the thief, because you attacked him. However.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'If he stole something in the city, the guards will see it, even if he is hidden.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'He will be held accountable for the crime "mugging". Unless it is your rp to take matters into your own hands, it would be best to let the Justice System take care of him.'

Isaldur says, OOC, 'Foremost, is it still code abuse to sneak up on the same person AFTER running off and hiding for a little? Say if you try to steal from someone 4 or 5 times in 3 IRL hours or so'

Cyric says, OOC, 'No, that is fine. Giving the character time to react to several muggings is fine. It's when a thief hides, immediatly steals, hides again.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'They are taking advantage of the players reaction time and typing speed for roleplay.'

Isaldur says, OOC, 'Right, secondly. How do the guards react to you if you are killmode nofight, and someone steals from you?'

Isaldur says, OOC, 'Same as stunning someone I would assume, even if the thief starts the aggression through use of steal, but you might be able to clarify'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Steal is aggressive, but only gets a reaction from NPC's.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'From a PC's you will simply see, "Someone tries to steal from you!"'

Cyric says, OOC, 'And you won't attack back.'

A young female elf says, OOC, 'what is an acceptable amount of time after stealing before one can log off? I know not to right after, but how long? I've been waiting 2 hrs rl time, but sometimes I cant'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Alright, back to the question. A good rule of thumb is an hour to two. The longer the better, because some players will send complaints about players stealing and not roleplaying the escape.'

A young female elf says, OOC, 'allright, and I assume it would be the same when stealing from npc's?'

Cyric says, OOC, 'If you stay on for around an hour to two, that gives them ample time to apprehend you. The longer the better, really. But I would suggest an hour to two.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Hm.. Well, it should be, but you can pretty much guess the reaction of an NPC if stolen from. I wouldn't enforce a one hour wait from a steal from an NPC.'

A short, gray haired male dwarf says, OOC, 'Yeah, alright, wouldn't it be more appropriate to have another steal skill called pickpocket? I mean, I've seen people do this and generally, if it's broad daylight and you're going to steal from someone you bump into them.'

A short, gray haired male dwarf says, OOC, 'Then lift their wallet-what have you-as you bump into them, how can you rp that with the steal the way it is now?'

A short, gray haired male dwarf says, OOC, 'I know, the just do something to get their attention away from their wallet.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Well, you can rp it through use of smotes and emotes, but your right - It's not fair to those who rp it compared to those who simply type steal.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'I'll bring the skill idea up with the other immortals and ask them what they think. =)'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'Problem is those who RP it are more likely to get caught, more details are known.'

A short, gray haired male dwarf says, OOC, 'well the way steal is set up now, you have to be hidden to really have a chance.'

Mikhail says, OOC, 'Exactly'

A short, gray haired male dwarf says, OOC, 'I can't really see the rp going "Someone walks past (Character-X) bumping into (Character-X's) shoulder and staggering.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Only problem I see with that skill is that, if it's a line like "Person bumps into you', then it will automatically set off a red light. Some players will take that and run with it, using knowledge they really wouldn't already have ICly.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'And it's hard to prove what knowledge you have ICly, compared to OOCly.'

Sable says, OOC, 'Depends on your level of skill with steal.'

Rhytania says, OOC, 'osay you have the players alias steal with an emote or two...that way its unique and changeable....'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Yes, but not all players will do that. I think he was suggesting a command that would force them to.'

Mikhail says, OOC, 'Well we aren't really picking pockets anyway since we can't get into "pockets" or "bags"'

Isaldur says, OOC, 'Actually, It is comical that a person can hold so much in their inventory yet still hold 2 things in their hands. And most pickpocketing deals with small items. With steal I've seen people steal a chest full of armor and weapons before.'

Mikhail says, OOC, 'That was my next comment'

Mikhail says, OOC, 'Stealing bags'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Inventory is more or less, what you carry with you. If you have three suitcases going to the airport, how do you carry all three?'

Isaldur says, OOC, 'I think there should be a penalty to skills that take dexterity depending how filled your inventory is.'

Isaldur says, OOC, 'I used my hands, I didn't hold the three and a sword and shield in my hands and battle air port giants =P'

Cyric says, OOC, 'You pull two a short distance and leave the other. Go back for the third, and catch up to the other two.'

A young female elf says, OOC, 'yeah my char can carry 11 things I think, it doesnt seem feasible to me, I try to keep everything tucked away'

A short, gray haired male dwarf says, OOC, 'generally I carry all three stacked, but that's mee.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Inventory is just what you carry. It can be set down near you in eyesight.'

Isaldur says, OOC, 'Then what about those who have a full inventory yet still dash about and don't lose things behind?'

A short, gray haired male dwarf says, OOC, 'I'd describe as what's in your quickly accessible pockets/hands. Like a shirt pocket, you rhands, and what you drag behind you as well.'

Sable says, OOC, 'Yet when I go to the airport I can carry two suitcases, a purse, a laptop bag and another carryon, my palm pilot, my cellphone, and still make a mad dash to the gates '

A short, gray haired male dwarf says, OOC, 'Last time I went somewhere, I carried five full suitcases, couldn't see where I was going.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'They pay for it in movement points. Alright, I'm getting really sidetracked (And running out of defenses =P)'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Any questions I can answer about Players stealing from Players?'

Isaldur says, OOC, 'Does steal take the weight of anything into account?'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'did we cover any kind of time that a stealer should stay on to allow for a retaliation?'

Sable says, OOC, 'From what I have noticed, it does take weight in to consideration.'

A muscular, almond-eyed male halfelf says, OOC, '1-2 hours, Aegir.'

A short, gray haired male dwarf says, OOC, 'Yeah, it does..big-time.'


A short, gray haired male dwarf says, OOC, 'You wear full plate and you'll not be stealing much.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Isaldur, yes. I believe it takes into account how much you are carrying and how much what you steal weighs.'

Mikhail says, OOC, 'Even if you can steal ntire bags, backpacks, etc it is considered bad form correct?'

A keen-eyed male dwarf says, OOC, 'perhaps packs and bags should 'have' to be carried - either by making them wearable on more than one location, or by them having to be held in the hands. You would then have to drop your 'suitcases' in order to pull out your ticket, sword etc *apolo'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Mikhail, if it is rped correctly, I believe bags are fair game.'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'in a way thats how it is now. If your not holding it its open to theft.'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'Thats the drawback to keeping things in your inventory as opposed to wearing them.'

Sable says, OOC, 'A lot of stuff comes down to RP and it is the responsiblity of the players to RP things out responsibly.'

You say, OOC, 'I'm hoping a new "slot" for packs, otherwise, I don't see the feasability of a player removing their pack and immediately having it stolen.'

You say, OOC, 'Same thing for getting items out of containers. With the added lag now, a thief can easily see when someone removes something from a container and then immediately steal it.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'New slots have been discussed, but it's pretty much been concluded that you have to sacrifice protection for security.'


Sable says, OOC, 'There are three options for packs, actually, as items are added in to the game. On the body, hold, and on belt.'

A tall young male elf says, OOC, 'So if your wearing something it can't be stolen?'


Mikhail nods at A tall young male elf.

A young female elf says, OOC, 'or on a pet, so someone can kill it '

You say, OOC, 'Why do they take up a chest slot though? Packs are generally worn on the back.'

A keen-eyed male dwarf says, OOC, 'damn this lag. Every time I try any kind of command other than sitting listening mutely I get kicked off. Could I be transported back to my original location? I'm going to have to log if this keeps up'

Isaldur says, OOC, 'On a sidenote, could it be coded so when you pay for something and your money is in the money pouch on you, it does not come out of the peach into your inv, but rather stays in the pouch and whatever leftover change is left goes to your inv?'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Cloaks and capes are also worn on the back, but loosely. The loosely chest slot is, more or less, meant to be a torso slot.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Isaulder, I believe there are money pouches out there like that. Sharni talked about it once, and said it wouldn't be terribly hard to code'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Essentially, spell pouches do the same thing.'

You say, OOC, 'What about thieves taking advantage of the lag time when getting items in or out of containers?'

Mikhail says, OOC, 'There's also a lag on steal, so not so big an advantage on container lag as it seems'

A muscular, almond-eyed male halfelf says, OOC, 'or when it's reduced with quick draw, you can't take advantage of it...(mad props to quick draw here)'

Isaldur says, OOC, 'There is a money pouch that allows you to access money without having it in your inventory, but once you buy, repair, or train. All the money goes into your inventory. At most it just saves lag time on not having to take money out manually'

Cyric says, OOC, 'A good question, Andreas. Frankly I don't have an answer for it. Players that take advantage of that lag time are very gutsy if they steal from you in the city.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Isaldur, I'll ask Sharni about that. It might be a bug that it ejects all the coin into your inv.'

You say, OOC, 'What about thieves who consistently find an OOC excuse to log off once they have been caught or those who don't being "physically" caught and then hide and sneak away?'

You say, OOC, '...don't RP being "physically" caught...'

Mikhail says, OOC, 'You mean were caught but ignore the RP?'

You nod.

You say, OOC, 'In the latter case, I am imagining they are desperately typing hide until they are well hidden and not bothering to RP.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Both cases should probably be reported to the Admins. The ones who ignore the RP, I suggest stunning them and rping with them afterwards. When they can't run.'

You say, OOC, 'But in a city you can't stun them.'

A young female elf says, OOC, 'but make sure they dc on perpose, some of us get dc on a regler basis and log right back on soon as we have rebooted'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Correct, but if they were caught, guards will see them. The guards will go report the crime and the character will be held for the crime "mugging"'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'and remember if you had a thief try to steal and fail, you can report it now just like the mobs do.'

You say, OOC, 'I generally give people until they hit the void to reconnect, but a few times I've had other PCs osay "gotta go" or something like that and log off... then I see them back on the who list after about 10 minutes.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'I dunno what to say about those other than keep them in mind. The best thing you can do is ruin a thieves reputation.'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'Thats a role I think thieves guilds should be filling.'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'guilds usually moniter criminal activity, and take action on those who may bring too much attention.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'As for those who "gotta go" because of OOC issues, that should not be an excuse. If they steal, they should do so with the foresight that they will have enough time to RP the stealing.'

A jittery male orc says, OOC, 'a very good point'

Sable says, OOC, 'I would like to take a moment to point out that in Waterdeep, the thieves are going to be particularly sensitive to this. The Open Lord before Piergrion hunted down and slaughtered all of the thieves in the City'

Isaldur says, OOC, 'I.E. Kicked the Shadow Thieves out'

Sable says, OOC, 'So anyone actively causing trouble is asking to be sent to sleep with the fishes.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Hope it answered your questions, Andreas. Very good ones, by the way.'

You say, OOC, 'Are there IC guilds that actually do monitor theiving activities? Usually a guild controls a certain amount of territory and then conducts activities such as begging, pickpocketing, housebreaking, racketeering and smuggling.'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'Not really no, but personally I think that should be one of their roles.'

You say, OOC, 'Oh, and let's not forget fenching '

You say, OOC, 'fencing even'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'Sorry, lagged, so it might have been answered before. But I would say a big NO to stealing a bag that a character has put something in or taking something out of. The character is paying attention to the bag, and you cannot steal it without being ca'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'The character is paying attention to the bag, and you cannot steal it without being caught.'

Sable says, OOC, 'Well, because of the thing with the Shadow Thieves there is no formal guild in Waterdeep... but that does not mean no one is keeping an eye on things ICly.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Guilds are being set up in each city, slowly but surely. Even if the city does not have a PC thief watching over things, doesn't mean one of us imms won't step in and "fix" things.'

A jittery male orc says, OOC, 'I'd say you can steal the pack if you use some kind of diversion after they're done with the pack'

A jittery male orc says, OOC, 'like having them look at an item'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Hmm. A good point, Shank. Just remember, you might draw attention with that diversion, though.'

You say, OOC, 'Are there any plans to add in items that could be exclusively used for thief roleplay such as smuggling smoke powder or stolen works of art?'

A jittery male orc says, OOC, 'yes, there is always a chance to draw attention'

A jittery male orc says, OOC, 'it's why if you see something that you want to steal, you should follow them with stealth and rob them later'

Cyric says, OOC, 'There are a few items (as well as a few areas) exclusivly for thieves. They were very well made and a few more would seriously make thief roleplay better.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'I am told that several areas are actually in the making with thieves in mind.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'This portion deals with player dwellings.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'As a thief, burglary is almost expected of you.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'However..'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Cleaning out a house is not accepted roleplay'

Cyric says, OOC, 'It really hurts things OOCly as well when you clean out an ENTIRE house.'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'so robbing player dwelling is allowed again? Last I heard it was declared illegal for the time being.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'osay Right now, no.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'There are modifications needed to be made to the houses. Right now, it's entirely too easy to break into the house.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'In real life, you'd need a van to clear out an entire house, no? Well, same here. People would notice as well. I was told, that if and when it comes back, one to two items should be all you should take.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'But, for now, we are unsure as to whether or not it will be brought back in. It tears down a players moral and hurts the shop system (which is in place to actually help PC's).'

Sable says, OOC, 'I would like to note that most of the player owned shops are being opperated at a loss by the players'

A disturbingly macabre male human says, OOC, 'How?'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'They have to pay much for the rooms (some 500 plat per room)'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, '*nod* most of them are simply operated to provide something to an area that needs it, like the Barge shop in ZK'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'And, for each item they sell, they only get half the money (the other half is kept by the shopkeeper mob)'

A disturbingly macabre male human says, OOC, 'That is a loss'

Cyric says, OOC, 'The players have to pay for the rooms, find the objects, pay for the mobiles, etc.'

A jittery male orc says, OOC, 'it's all about having respect for your fellow players'

Cyric says, OOC, 'It's a short topic, but important. For now it's illegal. Any real questions on it?'

You say, OOC, 'How do you tell you're in a player owned shop?'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'If its got a locked door connected to it, its prolly PC owned.'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'Otherwise it can be hard to tell.'

Sable says, OOC, 'Most of them have signs as well or hints in the room desc or extra decs.'

Sable says, OOC, 'If you read the room descs it is generally pretty easy to tell.'

Cyric nods his head in agreement with Sable.

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'Another good way to make sure about that if you are a thief is to take a look at the shopkeeper.'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'one other way is to type crime, that'll list the area file its in. Its OOC, but it works.'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'If the shopkeeper does not carry what he is selling, then it's most likely a player-owned shop'

A jittery male orc says, OOC, 'very descriptive room descriptions'

Sable says, OOC, 'Or if they are selling more than just a few things. Player owned shops will carry much, much more than regular shops.'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'And if you say aloud the name of the shopkeeper, he should answer something like 'Thank you, but I have already been hired by someone else.''

Cyric says, OOC, 'So there are plenty ways to tell. A simple "I didn't know" won't get you out of it.'

Sable says, OOC, 'Not really that difficult to tell if you are being responsible. Also if you see a shop without a shopkeeper and there are locked doors, most likely you are in one that the player has just not been able to hire anyone for yet'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'There are a couple in ZK who were robbed so many times they just gave up and stopped stocking, THATS what looting them causes, it screws most everyone over.'

Sable says, OOC, 'And consider for a moment that in the future, some things will only be available from the player owned shops, so if you mess with them, then you are screwing the entire MUD'

A tall young male elf says, OOC, 'Is there a way to complain about excesive looting?'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Of course. Just send an email to complaints@forgottenkingdoms.com to comaplain about excesive looting.'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'There is an e-mail address for all complaints like that. It's complaints@forgottenkingdoms.com. You can find it in 'help email' if you forget it.'

A jittery male orc says, OOC, 'yes, sable. So others don't rob the same shop after you did'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Alright, next is stealing from PC's pets.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Pretty much, if you are in the city, expect to be caught. The horse won't act too kind to those lifting bags from it if the person isn't it's master/owner.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'So the guards might hear a ruckas and come to check it out.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'It's a risk though. Don't think this will let you keep your mounts in MS now though '

Cyric says, OOC, 'The guards have been known to pick up stray pets as well.'

A young female elf says, OOC, 'MS?'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Market Square. It's my quick way of typing it.'

A young female elf says, OOC, '*nod* saw someone take a pony into temple once, when I tried to talk to them about it they mounted an road off'

Cyric says, OOC, '*nods* Should question it. We'll talk to him.'

A young female elf says, OOC, '*nod* I just sent them an otell, not seen her do it again'

Cyric says, OOC, 'In the wilds, horses can become fair game. Some thieves make a pretty good living off of stealing horses and such.'

A young female elf says, OOC, 'you can steal a pet?'

Cyric says, OOC, 'There are ways, yes.'

Sable says, OOC, 'But, I would like to point out that you have to be careful with that. If the owner is simply link dead then you are straying in to a bad area.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'True, Sable.'

A young female elf says, OOC, 'what of yer own pet if you steal someone elses?'

A disturbingly macabre male human says, OOC, 'Wouldn't stealing most pets be considered poor roleplay?'

Cyric says, OOC, 'It won't set the stolen animal as your own pet.'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'it doesn't make the pet yours, basically stealing a pet involves influencing it or straight killing it.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Hmm... Most pets, such as horses, would follow just about anyone, but --'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'Keep in mind that influence or charm negates the previous owners ownership, so its almost the same as killing it.'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'Influence should not be used on horses though.'

You say, OOC, 'What about RPing a horse thief?'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'Most are immune now, but I imagine there are exceptions.'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'In my opinion, a thief's influence skill is just a mix of bribe and sweet-talk'

Sable says, OOC, 'A lot of it depends on the circumstances and being responsible, once again. And Garl is right, you shouldn't be using Influence on anything but intelligent creatures unless your guild should have the ability to charm animals.'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'So that could only work on intelligent creatures who can understand your language.'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'It's not charm person/animal'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Ah. Wasn't too sure on this. Alright, so it's a 'no' to physically stealing an animal through means of infulence.'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'well, wouldn't it be easier to influence an animal tho'? I mean, all it would really take is a hungry horse and a couple carrots and it would follow you anywhere.'

Sable says, OOC, 'Not a trained warhorse.'

A young female elf says, OOC, 'when you do leave your pet for a minute, say to step into the bank, is there any better way to make it wait for you other then having it rest or sleep? most horrses dont sit or lay down, looks kinda weird'

You say, OOC, 'Nor a paladin's bonded mount'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'most of the horses running around aren't trained warhorses, they're just horses.'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'Nor a pegasus or whatever, or a horse that the character would have for quite a long time. It all depends on the pet's training.'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'But, anyway, that's not what influence is.'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'If rangers had influence, then it would be ok for them to use it in that way. Not thieves.'

A disturbingly macabre male human says, OOC, 'most creatures can be easily influenced, but it's not exactly long term'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'influence wares off, and it not something that makes it a pet. You log off and its lost.'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'If you want to play safe, don't use influence on anything else than intelligent creatures who can understand your language. That is, no animal, no undead, no golems, and so on'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'Influence is NOT charm person or charm monster or charm animal, much like hide is not invisibility. It's only a way to "talk your way out of dangerous situations or convince someone to help you"'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'What are the rules regarding influence, as far as what influence can be used for? In the case of wanting an item, Ive always used the rules regarding request... is this about right?'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'I would say there is no strict rule for influence. For example, it's bad form to give a requested item to someone else, because the mob might not have accepted to give it to that other person. But use it responsibly nonetheless.'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'What about say, if you wanted to sell it, not to a shop, but maybe to another PC?'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'So you can give an item gained through influence to someone else and and so on.'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'But don't expect the influenced mob to be kind with you next time you meet him (even if the code does not make him react nasty)'

Sable says, OOC, 'But walkl carefully, because abuse will result in everyone losing it.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Alright, I have two quick topics I'll combine into one cause this is getting lengthy, unless more questions?'

You say, OOC, 'And I'd imagine influencing a mob for an item then selling it back or selling it to another shopkeeper is abuse?'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'Well usually what I use it for is for helping newbies, stocking leathers to sell to ZK enwbies or whatever.'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'If it's from different mobs each time, that's fine. If it's always from the same mob, they would get wary of you.'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'What about the charm spell? Would that be different?'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'Andreas: it would depend on the relation between the influenced mob and the shopkeeper. If they are in different cities, it might be ok, I guess.'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'Same with the spell. As a rule of thumb, do not influence/charm the same mob more than twice and you should be safe.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'S'ok. We needed influence use in there. The next two subjects are Stealing from NPC's and Logging off during RP.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'The only problem we have seen is from stealing from NPC's is giving, and stealing back. This is code abuse, don't do it.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'The NPC would notice things being given to him and then, having them stolen away.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'And, logging off during an RP is pretty self-explainitory. Doing so will get you punished.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'The RP being the steal Most other rps are fine.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'If you steal, allow yourself at least an hour of run time.'

A disturbingly macabre male human says, OOC, 'If you steal an item from a PC's corpse, should selling that item be allowed? Especially if it is a quest/unique item?'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'What about if you steal and then get yourself to a safe area? Is this considered bad form, even if you don't log off?'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Also, hiding in plain sight is bad form. When all eyes on you, ducking behind a crate will not effectively hide you. '

A tall young male elf says, OOC, 'Does that meen you have to acyually run for an hour?'

Sable says, OOC, 'Selling quest items or renamed items is hideously inconsiderate to your fellow players.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Echet, yes, I believe it is allowed, but why would you do it?'

Sable says, OOC, 'Best rule of thumb for treating your fellow players is to ask yourself "How would I feel if someone did this to me?"'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'You can always take something then ransom it back, you get money and they get their item back '

Cyric says, OOC, 'There are so many options besides that.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Such as, as Aegir stated, ransom.'

Mikhail says, OOC, 'Yes, I was thinking ransom is a good option. And work with the person, too, don't just say X or nothing'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'Actually, I think that stealing a quest item and selling it or making it impossible for the owner to get it back is similar to what a problem player we had a few months ago did.'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'But anyway, what about the safe area part? Some thieves have places, temples and whatnot, that can't be entered by others.'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'There is a quest where you have to rescue a young girl. This player was waiting for newbies near that area and killing the young girl as soon as the newbie went out of the area with the girl mob.'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'That's just plain hideously inconsiderate to the other players, as Sable said.'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'Same with stealing items needed for a quest.'

Sable says, OOC, 'I would think that if you could get to a safe area that would be IC for you to go in a reasonable ammount of time, then you are cool, but keep in mind that just because you can run to Zazz in five minutes does not mean that is IC'

A young female elf says 'I have a question about the giving to mobs then stealing back.. A friend of mine erm.. lost his arms heh his pouch with money was in his inventory, when he tried to pay a priest to heal him it gave the priest his pouch, request and demand didnt get'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'Well, Sable, I think you know the areas Im referring to, Im not talking about running to Zazz.'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'No area is *entirely* safe though.'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'At least, no area should be entirely safe.'

Sable says, OOC, 'I know, that was just an example '

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'No, but the areas Im speaking of provide some safety.'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'Just wanted to make sure.'

Sable says, OOC, 'But, if someone tracks you there...'

Sable says, OOC, 'There could be IC consequences of you drawing attention to that area.'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'True.'

A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'But, thats the rule #1 of anything criminal on the MUD, don't do it unless your willing to deal with the IC consiquences.'

Garl Glittergold says to A young female elf 'In such cases, when the mob would ICly give back the object to you, you should use question to report your problem.'

Garl Glittergold says to A young female elf 'And imms will go there and roleplay the mob.'

Garl Glittergold says to A massive, muscular male human 'Of anything at all, actually.'

Sable says, OOC, 'IC Actions = IC Consequences'

A tall young male elf says, OOC, 'What if you steal, hide in a place that noone else can get in and someone finds you, but can't get to you is bad RP right?'

You say, OOC, 'Something else that is probably very bad form, and I don't know if there's a code against it here, is stealing from Imms and/or stealing from players while they're dealing with Imms ICly or OOCly'

Garl Glittergold says to A tall young male elf 'The only such place I can think of is the newbie temple.'

You say, OOC, 'ElseMU* if you tried to steal from an Imm you were autoslayed and jailed.'

Garl Glittergold says 'And you shouldn't start such roleplay (stealing from others and so on) until you are level 10 or more'

A jittery male orc says, OOC, 'that shouldn't be a problem considering the imms see a log of stealing'

Garl Glittergold says 'You would not get auto-slain, but there would be harsh IC consequences most likely.'

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'Not sure if you can steal from an imm at all, actually.'

Garl Glittergold asks Sable 'Try it?'

Sable says, OOC, 'A magical force interrupts you.'

Garl Glittergold Hmmmms...

Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'Try again?'

You say, OOC, 'And as for stealing from other players while they are involved ICly or OOCly with Imms?'

Garl Glittergold says 'If it's IC, it will be dealt with ICly. If it's OOC, it will be dealt with OOCly.'

Garl Glittergold frowns at what Sable did.

Sable giggles.

Garl Glittergold looks at Sable and says 'tsk tsk tsk'.

Garl Glittergold says 'Ok, you can steal from gods.'

Garl Glittergold says 'Actually, that can be IC if a god is posing as another character.'

You say, OOC, 'Well, I meant the "avatar" and not an Imm switched into a mob'

Sable says, OOC, 'I hope the Joker has a sense of humour.'

An old scarred human says 'I wouldn't mind people trying to steal from me when I'm like this.'


Garl Glittergold says 'It depends on what the imm is roleplaying at the time of the theft.'

Garl Glittergold says 'There was just a last topic I wanted to discuss briefly, actually.'

Garl Glittergold says 'It's on when and how to use 'hide'.'

Garl Glittergold says 'I have seen characters do this.'

Garl Glittergold wraps his cape around himself and suddenly disappears from sight.

Garl Glittergold says 'That's not what hide does.'

Garl Glittergold says 'As a rule of thumb, you shouldn't use hide in front of people you want to hide from.'

Garl Glittergold says 'You should rather hide in a room nearby, and sneak your way in.'

Garl Glittergold says 'And this holds for PC as well as for mobs.'

Garl Glittergold says 'You can't enter Bradigan's shop and hide there, in front of him, for example.'

A young female elf says, OOC, 'ohh sneaking heh when I sneak, and it says I sneak successfully, it still lets people know I entered a room, do I need to sneak north or sneak east rather then just sneak and then move?'

Garl Glittergold says to A young female elf 'It depends how good you are at sneaking.'

Garl Glittergold says 'You can *think* that you sneak well, but are not sneaking at all.'

Sable says, OOC, 'And what room you are entering as well.'

You say, OOC, 'What about in rooms that are technically "crowded" such as the Market Square where the room description states there are crowds? It's pretty easy to get lost in a crowd.'

Garl Glittergold says to you 'Case-by-case, I would think. If you are talking with someone, it's bad form to try and hide from that person'

A young female elf says, OOC, 'ok, but use of the command is it just sneak alone or do I need to type the direction I am sneaking in as well?'

Garl Glittergold says 'Sneak alone, then you can move till you type 'vis' I think.'

Sable says, OOC, 'Or you flee combat'

Garl Glittergold says 'But if you hide and move, you must make sure you walk very slowly if you want to remain hidden (speed crawl I think)'

Garl Glittergold says 'If you move faster, you will not be hidden anymore.'

Garl Glittergold says to you 'And, to answer your question about stealing from imms, well, it's also a case-by-case rule. If the imm is posing as somebody else than the god, then steal can be used I guess.'

You say, OOC, 'I meant from the Imm themself. Usually in an OOC setting where the Imm is talking with the player OOCly.'

Garl Glittergold says 'In this case, we will react to the log saying that someone stole something.'

Garl Glittergold says 'And the thief might be up to a strike or another punishment.'

Sable says, OOC, 'Garl saw the log that told him I stole from him.'

Garl Glittergold says 'Big brother is watching you.'

Garl Glittergold says 'Log: STEAL - Sable has stolen an ebony walking stick from Garl'