Tailoring, cloth making and dying trade

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Ivaldi
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Tailoring, cloth making and dying trade

Post by Ivaldi » Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:36 am

Would a dye trade be feasible? Basically it would allow you to recolor cloth, and maybe some leather items. I was wondering about this since some of us are obsessed with dressing completely in one color :D ... more seriously, there has been a lot of discussion about dressing in a certain color scheme for RP purposes.

The main problems I have thought of are:
1) I don't know how the color of objects is coded, so I don't know how difficult it would be to change it. Would recoloring be considered an object rename?
2) Getting the materials might be complicated--unless you can buy pigment somewhere, you would have to improvise, maybe using plants.
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Post by Mele » Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:07 pm

*swoon* Would it be like lapidary where you buy metal then gem, but cloth then dye? *swoonswoonswoon* I personally think it's a great idea, and that's not just because I own practically every piece of clothing in the game. *cough* ;)

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Post by Stayne » Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:09 pm

I have been thinking alot about this since for a few of my charecters there is no real RP looking clothing/armour and though renames are good, being able to make our own, or purchase off of another would be a good addition. In that case here are just my random thoughts on it. Hope they help.

There seems no real easy way to add in the ability to modify existing armours or clothes in a new colour by "dying". The main reason of course is that alot of armours have the colour the text is also written in their title. It would seem silly to have "Red studded leather armour" written in green.

To this end the only way I can see the dye skill working is that it will only work with selected clothes and armours. In this case my suggestion would be, of course, to make it only work with Player made armours and clothing, and possibly a selection of stuff coded to be sold inside the guild houses themselves.
I would envision 2 or more guild house scattered in the major towns where players could learn skills, as well where some base stuff to use are sold and where there are mobs that you can pay to dye things.
An example of what I was thinking is this. As part of the quest to learn tayloring, you learn Three sets of commands.
1. Weave <fabric>
This is like the smelting skill form the smith trade. You can take the raw material (Can't think of a good term offhand for the raw material, but you know what I mean), and turn it into a bolt of <fabric> where <fabric> is one selected from a list. As your tayloring skill goes up you can make more advanced fabrics. (Eg. here are: Cloth, Linen, Velvet, Silk, Satin, lace, Calico, Muselin etc...)
If succesful you have a "Bolt of <Fabric>" appear in your inventory that is defult colour white (or that crappy grey we call white ;)
2. taylor <garment type> <Fabric>
This command works the same as the smithing skill in that you select a garment type and have a bolt of fabric in your inventory. As your skill increases you can make different garments, with more complicated ones (eg. Gowns) being harder than easier ones (eg. Shirts). Just say for example that you had a "bolt of velvet" in your invetory, you might make a shirt from it. You would end up with "A shirt made of velvet" or "A velvet shirt" depending on what is more popular.
3. Dye <item name> <colour>
Fairly self explanatory. Bolts of cloth, as well as any item made from them can be changed in colour. This does not change the name of the item, but merely changes the colour of the text of the item.

Usage of any of these parts of the skill would aid towards increasing the "Tayloring skill" as a whole, though I would suggest that there be a min number of attempts of each before increase.
The 2nd and 3rd skill should also be able to be used with leathers made by those with that skill. To clarify, those with the tayloring skill could take "A hide of <whatever>" and when using the taylor skill, in the fbaric part they type hide. This will make the item to be out of "leather". The item can then be dyed as neccessary.
The final suggestion to make to all these , is that those tailors whose skills are high enough, should possibly be allowed a 4th command. This command would be to beautify (for lack of a better word) an item already made. What I basically mean is adding gems to a dress, or stitching to leathers. The skill might be something like this:
4. complete <clothing item name> <item to be compelted with>
The end result can be hard coded, where the title is based upon the material type of the item it is complete with. For eg. IF you use any type of material gem, you might get <an item> decorated with <gem type> (eg. A velvet gown decorated with pearls, or A linen shirt decorated with emeralds). Other suggestions would be using the terms, "set with", "woven with" or even "<gem type> laced <item type>". I am sure there are more, but thats all off the top of my head.
In the case of a thread being use, then the item will come out with <Item name> stitched with <thread name> (eg. leather armour stitched with gold thread, or Silk shirt stitched with purple thread etc.)
The only thing to note with this part of the skill is that when it is used, it finished the item. In other words the item looses the flag that allows its colour to be changed. (Since it will be of more than one colour, as the colour of the gem, or thread etc remains).

While it has been suggested that there this new skill is coming, I would also suggest a possible extra skill, one that would be similar, but probably would not fit under the "Tayloring" umbrella.
That is, I would like to be able to colour, or recolour armours made of metal types. I have seen alot of armours out there that already say in there descriptions something like "Steel <whatever> covered in <colour> paint". Since all player made armours tend to be that neutral grey colour I would love to see a place where we could have such armours (Again a mob selling colourable armour would also be nice) painted. For those smiths who have their masters stamp, then I suggest the addition of the stamp come after the colouring process. here are some examples of what I mean. As a smith I make:
Tin platemail belt and Steel armguards
I can sell them like this, and players can use their own skill to colour them, or pay a MOB at one of the guilds, or as a smith I can colour them myself. Then I add my stamp which "completes" the item and stops it from being repainted (ie. removes the flag again).
Thus I can take my tine platemail belt and paint it red, and sell it as such. Then I can take my Steel armguards, that are really well made, colour them purple and add my mark to them, and end up with something like:
Steel armguards stamped with a jawless skull
which I can then sell and can't be modified.

Alright - sorry for the length, but that covers my thoughts on how the skill could be implemented. As for quests for it, well that is an entirely different thread ;)
Hope it helps, and look forward to reading other peoples ideas.

-Stayne
"Why would I want to learn how to taylor clothes? I would prefer to learn how to restrain myself long enough from killing the taylor that he makes them for me"
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Post by Balek » Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:56 pm

Perhaps each player-made clothing item could have two variables in the name. One of these variables is set when you create the clothing, and set permanantly as 'velvet shirt' or 'silk pants'. The other variable is the color, set during dying. There could be a variable word that goes in front of 'velvet shirt' or 'silk pants' which indicates color as well as changing the display color for the item, basically:

{00}a <color> <fabric> <clothing type>

The color code and name are set during dying and the rest during construction of the garment. This would allow bleaching and redying of the fabric, perhaps permanantly reducing quality because of the bleach.

Finally as Stayne remarked, there could be another variable at the end. Some "finishing touches" could be added. An advanced tailor might add gemstones, lace trim, fur trim, etc.

ex.
{90}a red silk shirt trimmed with lace
{20}a green cotton cloak trimmed with rabbit fur


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Discussion on old board

Post by Ivaldi » Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:37 am

Links to the old board:

Discussion on tailoring
http://pub88.ezboard.com/fforgottenking ... ID=7.topic

A thought on dyes from Isaldur
http://pub88.ezboard.com/fforgottenking ... D=24.topic
Mingus

Post by Mingus » Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:36 pm

Stayne wrote:1. Weave <fabric> This is like the smelting skill form the smith trade. You can take the raw material (Can't think of a good term offhand for the raw material, but you know what I mean), and turn it into a bolt of <fabric> where <fabric> is one selected from a list. As your tayloring skill goes up you can make more advanced fabrics. (Eg. here are: Cloth, Linen, Velvet, Silk, Satin, lace, Calico, Muselin etc...)
So far there's no foraging skill that allows everyone to gather raw materials. So all these materials for now would have to be sold in stores. Making them far less in price than already made bolts of fabric. And like mining What ever you use as a rew material is what you produce as a bolt. ie Silk - Satin/Velvet, Cotton - Muslin/Calico.

As for Tailoring, I would add to its construction phrase a location selector so you can make under and over layers aswell. ie “construct cloth legs silk under” would make silk boxershorts in the under layer vs “construct cloth feet canvas over” would make Gaitors for the feet over location. An other ademdum would be the option of setting the transparant flag or not(default not) so as to be able to make boots/shoes visable under the gaitors or to for a tranparant flag on a cloak and not a robe ect ect. ie “construct cloth feet canvas over” vs “construct cloth feet canvas over /trans” would make the differance whether you can see the boots underneath or not.

As far as dying goes, what Balek suggested would set the color so that the color is used in the naming of the product. But I see no reason for repeated changes. Justlike the resize command once you set the color it stays set. Try dying a pair of blue jeans to pink or black leather to white. Along the same lines as to what Balek stated, a non-colored item would not be followed by a color tag. ie a cotton shirt. Where as once dyed the same shirt would read “a red cotton shirt”. this way would differenciate between what has been dyed and what hasn't. As for when you dye, either before, dye bolt pink or dye hide green or after, dye shirt red dye leather helm black, is another question. And also whether you should be able to laquer metals to also change their colors.
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Post by Adorah » Tue Oct 28, 2003 1:05 am

Not having a Raw Material, perhaps one could be created, such as an addition step. Sheering Sheep, one could even go as far as having a sheep as a pet, or a herd of sheep at the field behind their home. Another material that could be used would be plants such as the ever classic cotton plant one hears so much about. Perhaps even another animal like the silk worm.

This may be a bit much to add just for the trade, but the raw material could easily be wool, which one uses a spindle to make thread. It is no easy task either, I tried doing that when I was young. I think that this would be an awesome trade.

Just some thoughts,

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That word is.. duty..."
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Post by Rhelian » Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:19 pm

Cotton - Cotton plant
Hemp - Hemp plants
Silk - Silkworms, Purple Worms
Wool - Sheep, Goats, Dwarves (you can shear them if they're drunk enough)
Leather - Cows, etc
Suede - Cows, etc


Maybe while this is being coded, at the same time a forage skill for food could be brought in, again with raw materials (you "encamp" (as a command) and light a fire, then cook raw materials into food. Pretty much the same code, only slightly different ;)
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Post by Beshaba » Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:33 pm

Linen comes from the fibres of the flax plant.
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Post by Talos » Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:15 am

silk - spiders as well

There could perhaps also be the possbility of gold, silver, etc. thread. I'm not sure how this stuff is produced irl, by a smith or what...

silk from a subterranean worm which glows in the dark - making glowing cloth!

elven - elf hair

velcro - halfling feet hair

I also need a special material for polishing my throne of femurs and skulls, for which gnome whiskers should do nicely...
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Clothes to dye for

Post by Sindava » Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:24 pm

Like several others, I have a thing for giving a character a suitable set of clothing... and colour is very often important in the scheme.

Very interested in what I've read so far, and here are a few thoughts

I go along with the idea that dyeing should be linked to player made items . Is it possible to introduce a way to convert both colour and item name of an existing object.... it sounds tricky to me.

Linking it to other trades such as leather armour creation would make sense... and provide a good player to player link such as already exists from Dwarven miners to Gnomish jewellers.

It might even be possible to tie it to armoursmithing - though colouring suits of armour should be interesting.

The only thing I'd add here, would be to say that the dyes should be as important as the cloth/hide/leather thats being dyed.

Mmmmm, blue wort is good. Saffron is another old one...... cochineal, yeah that one too.

Well, you get the idea. This was really just an excuse for me to pun another subject title *inno*
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Post by Courakil » Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:57 pm

You would probably also want some raw materials to make the dye out of. You would of course need a vial or some container to keep the dye in. Ideas for colourants are

Berries: depending on the colour of the berries, red purple for mulberries, red for cherries, that kind of thing; I don't know if they already exist in game or not(and a pretty good dye as those who have tried to get stains of that kind of thing should know)

Blood: for the more evil people, blood could make an interesting and RP appropriate dye, you could even have it say <a blood red shirt>

Plants: It would help if I knew more about these things, but if anyone knows some good historical dye sources, this could be more accurate.

Metals and earth elements: many metals and elements are great for dye, for example, rust can make a very interesting colour if washed with clothing, and cobalt can make a very vibrant blue
Angelita

Post by Angelita » Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:23 pm

I noticed that nothing had really been posted in this post for about two years, and I was wondering if the trade for making clothing had been created yet. I used to have a character on my old mud that made clothes, and I would like to get back into it if possible here. Just wondering how it worked here.

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Post by Nearraba » Wed Jul 13, 2005 11:55 pm

Was just wondering if there are only certine classes that would be able to learn this trade, if it is sucessful?
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Post by Japcil » Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:35 am

This is in limbo in the Bugzilla system(enhancement) still, is the Area support in? Can it we close it out in bugzilla?

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