Polymorph race restrictions

[Pakur]

I recently created a Transmuter and trained my skill in the Polymorph spell up to Adept. I have found that many races I have tried to polymorph into are restricted, and of the ones that are not restricted I could polymorph into at a lower skill levels in the spell. Many dire animals are closed off, as well as all demons, dragons, plane-touched races, giants and many random animals like sharks, whales, cows, griffons and a host of others. I am hoping to appeal the decision to limit the races that a person can polymorph into. I created a Transmuter for the sole purpose of polymorphing into everything from chickens to dragons ( I won't lie, I've always wanted to poly into a shadow dragon ). I understand that there is a concern about abuse of the polymorphing ability, and it is most likely the reason for many races being restricted. However most players ( if not all ) adhere to the policies on Forgotten Kingdoms and don't abuse code. Those that do are usually noticed and weeded out. <3

[Nylo]

I agree. With the change to duration to bring it in line with SRD, it would be nice to see available forms also brought in line with SRD.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorph.htm

The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin.

[Pakur]

Bump. Thoughts?

[Althasizor]

I'd be concerned with balance.

[Selveem]

Balance wouldn't be as much an issue if the code worked precisely as it does in D&D.

In any case, I don't mind classes being powerful, but I would like to see classes brought closer balance instead of the current tier system we have.

[Mele]

This is strictly my opinion, not official word.

I do not believe this is an issue of abuse so much as balance.

As it stands right now often mid level(3x) characters are duoing or soloing high level(5x) areas(IE: Underdark) thanks to polymorph. If anything, I'd personally live to see less races offered. Some races offered, for example, do not even exist as npc's in our game. While obviously out of code they do exist, I do not feel 'off-screen' roleplay justifies the knowledge to polymorph into a rare and powerful race.

[Selveem]

As it stands right now often mid level(3x) characters are duoing or soloing high level(5x) areas(IE: Underdark) thanks to polymorph. If anything, I'd personally live to see less races offered. Some races offered, for example, do not even exist as npc's in our game. While obviously out of code they do exist, I do not feel 'off-screen' roleplay justifies the knowledge to polymorph into a rare and powerful race.

Polymorph is supposed to be a very powerful spell. It makes tons of "strongest wizard spells" lists:
http://gamingmyway.com/2008/11/30/best- ... ells-ever/
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=144162

Etc. etc.

I understand what you're saying and agree that in its current form Polymorph is more powerful than it is supposed to be:

Players are supposed to receive the Dex, Con, and Str stats of the race they're switching to instead of their own stats on top of the race they are polymorphing into (I assume this is what's happening, because I saw some crazy stuff happening with some races).

I think if this is fixed, a lot of the crazy strong builds wouldn't be quite so powerful?

[Nylo]

Polymorph as coded, does replace the character's stats with those specified in the racefile. They do not stack as they used to. The forms without npcs ingame, so far as I've been able to find, are limited to environmental variants, i.e. certain artic races. For any of the powerful forms I know, there's at least one npc ingame. And it doesn't take a powerful polymorph form to duo/solo some level 50 areas with mid to upper 30's chars.

Edit: Rereading this I remembered a few more non-variant races with no npcs I know of, though by no means could they be considered powerful.

[Selveem]

Polymorph as coded, does replace the character's stats with those specified in the racefile.

Hm, it must have been that the stats in the race file were surpassing what they should have, then. I saw some numbers that were definitely not base. Thanks for the update, though.

[Nylo]

I ran a check on the numbers of one recently removed form, owlbear. Figuring in advancement at 9-15 HD, it matches srd precisely, except natural armor was 5 points lower than srd.

[Kirintor]

So I know I'm new here and this is literally my first post on the forums (hi by the way! ). But as long as the base stats are in place, why would/should it be a problem to have any/all races (that the character has seen/knows) be available. I'm a long time D&D player, and while there is always the possibility for people to "break" their characters and seem OP, I'm pretty sure Wizards and the SRD are fairly balanced. So if we're running by 3.5 rules, the code has been written correctly, and the stats are set... again, I don't see where the problem is.

Correct me if I'm wrong. >.<

[Ceir]

Hi, another new wizard (transmuter, in fact!) and all balance issues aside, I'm wondering if it would be okay for the characters to compile an IC (or OOC if possible) list of forms which work. More importantly, I'd like a list of forms that don't work. It's a demoralizing time waster to discover that yet another potentially sweet form is not simply temporarily out of reach, but permanently out of reach, by a selection mechanism that seems arbitrary--or by a simple lack of implementation. An easy-to-find compendium of avoidable mistakes would save some heartache and spell slots.

Now, there are some minor problems with the options that are available (dire wolf doesn't have his 3 natural AC, etc., etc.), but on the whole I'm pretty okay with what I've seen so far.

One real request: with Alter Self completely absent (and mourned), could we add the option to polymorph into your own species? I notice that attempts to polymorph into a halfelf fail with a "you are not skilled enough" message, but attempts to polymorph into a slightly different human fail outright with a "you are already a human" message. If it isn't terribly difficult to implement, the option to polymorph into a disguise/impersonation form would have some interesting roleplay potential.


On another topic, in response to Kirintor...
In my experience (and on charop boards), wizards aren't balanced in any flavor of third edition. At all. Wizards/Clerics/Druids are far and away the most powerful options, and which one of those three wins depends on how many supplements the DM allow. Polymorph spells and wild shape are one of the major ways they break the game, so it's acceptable to hit it with the nerf bat a little. Nobody, not even transmuters, should complain about the inability to turn into an Annis Hag or Treant at level 7, rendering the party bruisers obsolete.

[Nylo]

As far as disabled races, the code checks certain stats, automatically disabling forms with stats above set limits. From my experience, it seems to be something on the order of maximum 29 str, maximum +5 natural AC, and likely a few more. This is just theory, as I don't have access to code. Also, races can be disabled by the admins if decided to be too powerful. However. Wizards are supposed to be powerful - the ability to polymorph into a treant at level 7 (approximately level 18 on FK) is balanced by the restrictions imposed by polymorph - you don't get animate trees, you don't get damage reduction, you retain your own hitpoint score - it's really not a replacement for a fighter. Granted, there are many other forms you could point to, claiming overpowered. It's not easy trying to balance every form, though the skill level/practice system in FK helps somewhat - being able to assign the most powerful forms as GM only. While it would be awesome to have all the forms allowed by SRD, I don't see that happening, if only because it could start a lot of OP complaints. Ultimately it's up to the staff, as to whether this spell is brought up to SRD or not.

[Ceir]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I'm hoping there's someone who can clue me in to whether or not any new forms still exist past the Adept level. Since Ceir's level 50, there's not much left for him to do but try to beg level 6 through 9 spells from other PCs and grind up what transmutations he's managed to find. After attaining Expert rank in polymorph, and again after attaining Master rank, I've been unable to discover any new forms (even useless but fun ones, like the tressym). Is there any point to grinding it up to Grandmaster? It looks like it'll take about 1300 castings to reach it, so I'd rather save myself the trouble if everything beyond Adept is disabled.