Slip

[Rotha]

If the roll fails, the victem will see: Saiden gives you a leather backpack.
And the rogue would see: You give Bob a leather backpack.
I suggest that these messages be seen, because if the victem notices it's going on, it would appear to him as though Saiden is merely handing the item over.

Quoting way back from the first post here, but wouldn't someone notice a big difference between you handing them something (essentially extending it to them or offering them it and them taking it) like with the 'give' command, and them finding your hand in their pack/whatever, about to drop an item with the slip command? Maybe the message should clearly state that the person was trying to slip the item in... Just a thought.

OR, there could be different degrees of failure. I might be wrong, but at least in tabletop D&D when you pick pocket, you can fail and your victim might not notice. The same could be applied here, if you fail by just a little bit, it means you do a good job saving your own hide and making it look like you're simply handing it over, and they get the regular 'give' message. If you fail by a lot, it means you're caught with your hand in the pack, and they get a message telling them so.

[Lerytha]

I was reading this subject/post thing, and I read the interesting discussion about stealing a backpack... now, this is partly just to put the idea out, though I suppose it must have some credibility. I hope:

In the Mallorean, Belgariad, etc, (by David Eddings) there are constant references to how brilliant a thief a character (Silk) is. Now, I know it has nothing to do with Forgotten Realms, but I am sure that Silk, probably the best thief in that world, would be able to steal a backpack.

Not being a thief myself, I'm not sure how, but if a max levelled thief, who is a great rper, managed to steal a backpack, while smoting/emoting exactly how he did it, I would say it isn't poor RP, just unusual, and nigh impossible.

There are ways to steal backpacks, probably by adding a counterfeit one instead? Knocking them on the floor and performing some sleight of hand (though you'd need a pretty big sleeve). Well, just a thought.

I do agree, however, that stealing a backpack is bad RP for someone who does not RP it out properly.

And as for the original title of the post, I think it is a good idea, the slip skill, as long as no deranged servant of Mask slips anything incriminating into my pocket... if they do, they'll have my wrath to answer to!

Anyway, I hope some of that made some sense... somewhere.

The Wise One smile on you, from Lerytha Holt

[Andreas]

I carry a big purse. HUGE! I'll take pictures and post them to my site if anyone doesn't believe the size of this thing! And it probably weighs close to 20 lbs. if not more!

There is NO way someone could steal my entire purse while I'm holding it without me noticing.

I don't care how well you think you can RP it - unless someone is dead or sleeping, it would be impossible to steal a purse/backpack/bag out of someone's hands (inventory) without them noticing it immediately. Something that size just doesn't wander off on its own.

Stealing money, jewelry or other tiny objects I can understand and support. But not a whole backpack full of stuff. Just because the code might let you do it doesn't mean you should.

[Belose]

I don't believe it, you must take pictures and show us this bag of holding....

[Delamen]

You make all good points Andreas. You are exactly right, no thief in the game could steal a purse your holding in your hands. Unfortunatly, the inventory system doesn't really represent what your character is holding in their hands, the left and right hand equipment slots do. I have a character that can have over 20 items in his inventory at once. As for a backpack wandering off on it's own, I like to think of the steal command as more than just reaching out and taking something. I think of it as a misdirection, an opportunity during a moment of distraction, for the thief to make the move on his mark. While juggling those ten items in your inventory, while holding a sword in a shield, I'm sure it'd be quite easy to lose track of one of them, even a backpack.

Delamen

[Paxos]

Weight is taken into account by the code. If someone has Adept at Pick Pocket and amazing ability scores, they can usually gank something of a very high weight. Perhaps the weight modifiers need some adjusting, but as an example of such a thing, Andreas, I present to you the magicians Penn and Teller. They can quite literally take watches and belts that people are wearing off of their person without the people knowing.

Penn and Teller are just two semi-mainstream people that do something that a few select people can do in the world today. The point of a character in FK is that you are one of those select people, that's what DnD is. Moving from a commoner to extraordinary Penn and Teller-like person would be involved in Thievery. And if they ever stop by in town, ask them to try to steal a backpack off of your back... I bet they probably could.

Paxos

[Timaeus]

After following this thread I decided to see what the 3rd edition Players Handbook states as it is of little concern to my thief who is often far too drunk to steal anything. Anyway page 72 of the players handbook:

PICK POCKET (Dex;Trained Only;Armor Check Penalty)
You can cut or lift a purse and hide it on your person, palm an unattended object, or perform some feat of legerdemain with an object no larger than a hat or a loaf of bread.

Packs would be larger than a loaf of bread or a hat.

[Delamen]

I'm not sure what coding would be involved, to differentiate size of items, when involving thieving, but I'm sure it would be no small amount. There is a very, very effective means of keeping thieves from your valuable packs and pouches. It's stated right in the help file for steal in the game. All you have to do is wear that backpack on your back, or strap that purse to your belt, and no thief in the game will be able to take it.
I agree that discretion should be used with the steal skill, that weight, size, and circumstance should all be taken into account, when a thief decides to steal something.

Del

[Mikhail]

I want your bag/backpack. Yes, YOURS. No, not his, not hers, YOURS. You know the bag I mean - it's the one with your quest rewards and specialty items. I'll just move up here next to you and steal this 65 lbs pack without your knowledge. *waves his left hand about* Look over here *uses his right hand to quickly lift a pack weighing 65 pounds* No, over here *misdirects victim's view while concealing full backpack under his shirt*

Now how does that "stealing backpacks is okay" commentary look? Not so logical or appealing, is it? Well, that's why after much debate it was decided that they were TOO BIG AND HEAVY to be easily stolen from inventory. Period.

If you want to get really picky, inventory itself shouldn't exist. Where are these mysterious items we do not wear nor hold yet have with us? But none of us want that. Therefore we, the players, must exert personal responsibility and not steal things that are too heavy and too big.

Finally, whether or not you personally believe stealing a backpack should be possible, the rules state it is not possible to steal a backpack from someone.

-Mikhail "I want YOUR backpack" Lerouge


P.S. Size of containers is already coded.

[Belose]

I'm still waiting to see Andreas' bag... it must be a real life bag of holding after that statement made earlier in the thread... and does Andreas have a license for carrying this? It truly sounds like it could be a terrible Melee weapon.....

[Delamen]

I have to say, Mikhail, that I feel your post was a bit hostile. You seem to be taking my message, or maybe the whole thread, as a personal attack.

Well, that's why after much debate it was decided that they were TOO BIG AND HEAVY to be easily stolen from inventory. Period.

I was just wondering when the Immortals decided this, since this is kind of what we're discussing on this thread. If it's already been decided, this thread is pointless.

the rules state it is not possible to steal a backpack from someone.

I personally appreciate your familiarity with the D&D rulebook, and respect you as a player. I'm only trying to have a creative discussion, and don't want to start an argument. Thanks

Del

[Mikhail]

Oh gosh no! I know the thread is not directed at me. My apologies if it seemed hostile. I was simply using dramatic emphasis to make a point.

Mikhail "I don't really want your backpack I was just using that for dramatic emphasis" Lerouge

[Andreas]

For those who missed it before, here's the log of the Thieves' Forum which was hosted by Cyric this past winter.

http://www.geocities.com/teutelquessir/thieves2.txt

It is VERY clearly discussed in there that stealing backpacks and other large items (specifically containers) from another player's inventory is against the rules.

[Cret]

However, I was wondering if steal could be ammended or another skill be added.

The ability to 'skim' I believe is the proper term.

To take an item, not from anyone, but from the groud.

Say someone is 'throwing coins' at a bard in MS (note: Stealing in Waterdeep goes against our nice roleplay in Waterdeep policy.
See help waterdeep roleplay.) and I happen to have this skill. I could steal .item. and secretly take the coins with out everyone else seeing it.

Maby the 'slip' skill would be a better name, but that title was already taken. If you wish to know what that was about...

http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/board/ ... .php?t=966


Also, I would see steal added to carts, Honestly I could be wrong saying it isnt possible, but I have had yet to test it. Here goes:

Add carts as an acceptable target. So I could steal from say.. Uh.. Who ever has a cart open.. not that the cart can yell if caught, but perhaps a proper echo could be added.

Also the ability for horses to 'yell' Cret is a bloody thief!" is not quiet right, even if they do in animal.. Though I could see a warhorse screaming. Ive seen some of them do it Though I dont think a warhorse would alow you near it to take something.

Well that all, thank you.

Mucho love...