[Help File] Bard Song -Midnight Gift

[Tarven]

There is currently no help file for this song, and I've been unable to discern it's effect through score, aff etc. Any clues?

[Raona]

Ah, that's a long-standing sticky wicket. This song is old code that boosts mana, which we don't use any longer. The suggestion has been to change it to provide a boost to one's meditate skill, which I now am in a position to actually attempt. How does that sound as a function of this spell? I assume Bards use meditate? Maybe not, but it's still useful for other spellcasters in their party? Or would it make more sense for the song to allow you to cast at a higher level, or boost a stat, or something?

[Tarven]

Well, boosting meditate would be handy, except for the fact that it's -very- short duration (like about 10 seconds?), and the fact that you can't sing and meditate at the same time. The latter, in and of itself, isn't really such a -huge- deal. It could be considered a group support ability. But, if that's the case, it would be nice if it had a longer duration? Perhaps space out each 'line' of the song to be 15 seconds, so that it goes for about 1min total?

The other possible issue with that is, don't skills have a hard cap? If you're GM'd at meditate (which typically happens pretty early for most characters) would the song increase the skill beyond 25? If so, that'd be awesome. If not? Not very useful at all.

I have some ideas for alternate uses of the song that could still be in keeping with the title of the song, as well as the lyrics. Maybe detect/read magic for the entire party/area while it's going? (IE those things that bear Mystra's touch carry a soft blue glow, and the writings of her weaves become readable?)

Could come up with some other ideas, too. That's just off the cuff.

[Lysha]

And yes, bards get meditate.

[Tarven]

Well, since I said you can't meditate and sing at the same time, I sort of imagined that would be implied, but yeah.

[Nearraba]

I really love bard songs! I haven't found all of them myself, but if an existing one does not already do as Tarven suggested, read magic or detect magic on the entire party would be perfect for Midnight's Gift. That has my vote! =)

[Tarven]

Yeah, could be fun, and somewhat useful, but hardly overpowering. Seeing as the song is a relatively easy one to get, it seems suitable.

[Gorwin]

Like those two suggestions, here are a few other possible ones i an think of. The best gift a bard could hope for, to be understood, hence an aoe perhaps of comprehend language or tongues. Or for perhaps,and yes this one is wild, give it the same affect as the shield spell, might help with bards and surviveability. and for my super selfish one, i wouldn't mind an affect that makes you weightless, cause lets face it always being encumbered really bytes.

[Tarven]

Like those two suggestions, here are a few other possible ones i an think of. The best gift a bard could hope for, to be understood, hence an aoe perhaps of comprehend language or tongues. Or for perhaps,and yes this one is wild, give it the same affect as the shield spell, might help with bards and surviveability. and for my super selfish one, i wouldn't mind an affect that makes you weightless, cause lets face it always being encumbered really bytes.

Well, bards have the tongue spell, which can also be cast on others. They also have comprehend languages, which granted can only be cast on self, but can be used to read books, anyway.

As to shield spell, bards can use shields, as is. In addition, they get use magic device, which means they can buy wands of shield, which are pretty inexpensive. I think the standard price is under 10p, and haggle will often drop it even more. A group shield might be interesting, but imo isn't very in keeping with the idea of 'midnight's gift'. The song itself refers to Midnight in Mystra's aspect, so something to do with magic in general seems appropriate.

Weightless would be interesting, but again, not really in keeping with the theme of the song. Perhaps another song could be written in to offer at least an increase in what one carries, but given the duration of typical songs, I'm not sure that would be terribly useful for you. My bard doesn't have much problem staying within light encumbrance though. Might try other solutions for that.

Not trying to shoot down your ideas, per se, merely suggesting that there are already alternatives for such. I, overall, like the idea of songs benefiting groups. If there was a way to increase meditation beyond GM, I think that would be an ideal usage of the song, if the duration was increased. Barring that, the idea of midnight/mystra's gifts would, to me, be an understanding of magic, or seeing magic the way wizards/priests/others do, for those that normally can't.

Just my thoughts on the subject =)

[Gorwin]

Hmmm, well I could see it possibly being an in combat mana regen, working similiar to meditate but for a group. Could perhaps also increase magic resistance. It clearly leads one to believe by the words in the first verse, where it is talking about sharing the weave, that it should be some sort of regen. least to me anyways. Hmm that could be another possibility too, have it work like a heal over time.

[Raona]

I'm really liking the suggestion of group 'read magic + detect magic' for a longer duration, and don't think that would be unbalancing. I think I can even figure out how to code it in. Any further thoughts before I give it my best shot? How long should it last, 1 minute? 10 minutes? Something based on the Bard, like his/her level? I appreciate your collective help, especially in calibrating how much power the song should have given the other songs and the difficulty of finding and learning this one. My only other PC is a bard, but I only got as far as getting his token, so don't know any of it myself. So...thanks again for the help!

On a related note...Midnight Magic is broken in the same way (and used to do the same thing) - should it get the same fix? The lyrics are different, it might be better suited to some sort of magical protection or damage reduction, or an INT boost.

[Tarven]

Duration of 1 min should be -plenty- of time for read/detect magic. Technically, it's supposed to be as long as the song lasts.

As far as Midnight's Song, I don't have it yet (But I'm sure I will). If it's possible to PM me the lyrics, without giving away who gives the song, perhaps I can come up with some ideas. Or you can post them to forums if you're comfortable with that, but idk. If you'd like to keep the name/quest for the song the same, and want entirely NEW lyrics, and a new effect, let me know, lol.

Thanks for following up on this, though, Raona. I still like the idea of detect/read magic for the party, for Midnight's Gift.

Midnight's Song as a few points of magic resist or D/R might be interesting. Might be too powerful though, or too insignificant to count. I like the idea of it being -handy- but not unbalancing, and not useless, or redundant. (IE, detect magic cannot normally be cast on others, nor read magic. I guess could theoretically be put into potions, but meh on all that). As to int, bards get mass mnemonic enhancer. *shrugs*

A lot of the songs from SRD are hard to translate into the game, for mechanics reasons.

Actually... hmm. Here's an interesting idea, for one or the other... Can it temporarily create the 'room_inn' flag in the room that the PC is playing music in?

[Raona]

Ok, I'm liking the following modifications:

Midnight Gift:
modifies affect by 'read magic' applies read_magic for '1' rounds
modifies affect by 'detect magic' and applies detect_magic for '1' rounds

Midnight Magic:
modifies affect by 'sanctuary' and applies sanctuary for '3' rounds

I think Mask would have to make these, as I don't see the song file anywhere I can edit.

[Selveem]

Ok, I'm liking the following modifications:

Midnight Gift:
modifies affect by 'read magic' applies read_magic for '1' rounds
modifies affect by 'detect magic' and applies detect_magic for '1' rounds

Just out of curiosity, do 'rounds' = minutes? And, if so, "FK minutes" or RL minutes?

[Tarven]

A round, in tabletop, is equivalent to about 6 seconds. I think during combat, this translates over to here, but I'm not sure exactly. Out of combat, I've never been 100% sure. But basically, Selveem, bard songs are supposed to be active while the songs are being sung, perhaps a little beyond. They're sung in pulses, so essentially, each time a line is sung, (basically once per round, or every 3 rounds, depending on the song) it would renew the pulse, until the end of the song.

With 4 lines for midnight gift, you'd get in total about 24 seconds of detect magic and read magic. While this might not seem terrible useful, I can think of several instances where it would be, especially given that normally, detect magic and read magic cannot be cast on others (though potions can be brewed). So perhaps after finishing a party quest with some non-casters (or hybrid casters) involved, the bard could use the song, so everyone can check out to see if their shiny new pig-sticker is magical.

With Midnight Song, it's 8 lines.. if the lines were spaced out in 3 round intervals, you'd end up with about 144 seconds of the sanctuary spell. Useful for giving your group time to sit down and meditate in relative safety, or perhaps time to conduct 'peace talks'.

Raona: I love it!

[Selveem]

Re:Tarven:

Thanks for the explanation. My Bard is not leveled. Sounds pretty fun, though! Maybe we'll get some more bards in the game.

[Tarven]

I have two, though neither exceptionally high level. One is going to be offensively oriented, the other defensively, and both seem to be working well so far. My defensive bard might not get quite as much AC as a fighter, but makes up for it in other ways (heals, mirror image, etc). Granted, I could probably do as well or better with a cleric, but there are just fun aspects of being a bard. idk. =P

[Raona]

Ok, while we are on the topic, it looks like the Helm's Watch song might need an update as well, it has
Affect 1 modifies affect by 'guardian' and applies guardian for '5' rounds
but I can't find Guardian coded anywhere and having checked a bard after they sang the song (thanks for the help!) I'm dubious it actually does anything. This effort also led to the revelation that the song comes in shorter and longer duration versions, and that the same is/was probably intent with the Midnight duo. Looking over the lyrics it might make more sense to have Midnight Gift be a longer-lasting version of Midnight Magic, with both giving read magic + detect magic (or should that be more? How powerful should Bard songs be? Should the higher level one give detect hidden, or True Sight, or somesuch?) and then have Helm's Watch give Sanctuary.

The other songs look to be valid, though one might be using outdated terminology:
Affect 1 modifies affect by 'infravision' and applies darkvision for '1' rounds
Perhaps this should be darkvision in both places, as per the Darkvision spell.

There's also some grammar issues, like displaced periods in the elemental one.

But I think this is a complete list. I'll try to figure out how/request the power to update bard songs.

Moving to bugs!

[Tarven]

If you'd like to see some examples of Bard Songs in tabletop, here they are:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm#bardicMusic

However, most of those song abilities that are feasible here, are covered by 'spells'. I like the idea of songs covering other bases. Some of them are debatably incredibly powerful (+4 dodge bonus to AC for example, would stack to every other type of bonus. That's huge, but not feasible for FK's rules and mechanics).

Inspire competence, granting +2 to any skill? Again, pretty slick. Useful on FK? Maaaybe, maybe not, the way skills are set up here. Or more, very selectively useful.

But again, since we're not slaves to canon, giving a little leeway, imo, is a good thing. Also, songs have a relatively limited number of uses (at least at low levels. In tabletop it's 1/level/day) and short duration.

I think the Midnight ones only give them a little bit of niftiness. Nothing that can't be done with a potion anyway. The idea for Helm's is quite nice. Perhaps alter the quest to require a higher level, would be balancing? Although, sanctuary is pretty easy to overcome. At least when mobiles have it. *Shrugs* I personally don't think it's unbalanced, but I'm likely biased. Other opinions are welcome.

Something that might be interesting, with Midnight Gift (or song?) would be perhaps for the duration to stop the degradation of buffs? Not sure on the viability of that. But since you can't replenish mana, would it be possible to boost the duration of spells currently active? Just a thought. Seems 'fitting'.

[Raona]

Something that might be interesting, with Midnight Gift (or song?) would be perhaps for the duration to stop the degradation of buffs? Not sure on the viability of that. But since you can't replenish mana, would it be possible to boost the duration of spells currently active? Just a thought. Seems 'fitting'.

I like the idea, but I think that would be hard to pull off. It would certainly require special hard code. But I can ask into it.