Ordering of Spell Affects

[Laroremas]

This is just a tiny thing and is by no means pressing.

But, it would be neat if spells affecting you were ordered by how long they will continue to affect you.

At the top, spells that will be lasting the longest, and at the bottom, those that will wear off sooner. Or vice versa, I suppose.

[Mele]

I actually prefer it how it currently is, personally!

Right now they are listed in order of which affects were cast on you. The reason I prefer this is simple.

Let's take my example list here:


Spells and other magical affects
Affected: Stone skin for a while
Affected: Mnemonic enhancer for a while
Affected: Shield for a very very long time
Affected: Heroes feast for a very very long time
Affected: Bulls strength for a while
Affected: Trollish vigor for a while
Affected: Slink for a while
Affected: Divine favor for a very very long time
Affected: Fly for a while
Affected: Pass door for a very very long time
Affected: Ghost armor for a very very long time
Affected: Armor for a very very long time
Affected: Dragonskin for a very very long time
Affected: Barkskin for a very very long time

Now let's say someone is casting dispel magic on me - I can absolutely know without a doubt to have a stone skin ready to shoot off if their dispel lands because dispel will take the first x number of cantrips on my person depending on the dispel magic caster level:

You pass your hands around your body...
Your skin feels soft again.
The mnemonic enhancer withdraws from your mind.
Your force shield shimmers then fades away.
The effect of the heroes' feast fades away.
Your potence slowly withers away...

Exact order of my list. :) I can see how it would be nice to have them in order of lasting, but I personally feel that order by time of affect is more beneficial.

[Isolrem]

Just means dispel magic needs a rework, it should roll against every affected spell separately. (source: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dispel_magic)

In the current system, casting a bunch of useless affect spells on yourself first is a very viable method for magical PvP.

[Mele]

If dispel magic does not function as it should using that to gain the upper hand in pvp by casting useless spells would be a very obvious form of code abuse. (:

[Selveem]

Just means dispel magic needs a rework, it should roll against every affected spell separately. (source: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dispel_magic)

In the current system, casting a bunch of useless affect spells on yourself first is a very viable method for magical PvP.

I agree.

If dispel magic does not function as it should using that to gain the upper hand in pvp by casting useless spells would be a very obvious form of code abuse. (:

I knew about it and simply assumed it was coded that way intentionally. I'm not really sure how I might have suspected it as code abuse any more than spamming a low level spell like sound burst to get instant critical damage vs enemies (knowing, of course, that a simple stun in D&D does not entitle one to a critical hit) might be code abuse. Things in FK are often coded differently intentionally.

[Mele]

Try not to assume the worst of a statement! I know I'm personally bad at assuming people understand a simple statement, obviously, but try to assume the best intentions! :)

If dispel magic does not function as it's supposed to - this means if it doesn't function properly, and it's not just coded how it works best for FK, then using it in the way described because it was described in detail here would be abusive behavior. Knowing fully well it's not intended to work that way, and using the code to function for your benefit anyhow.

So if someone comes in and says - let's fix dispel and the affects list, and someone uses the method described regardless, it's a misbehavior.

If may be a small word, but it often makes the difference in a statement!

Anyhow! How about that affect list, heyhey!

If dispel works properly, I really like the advantage of knowing what buffs are going to be removed first over a cleaner list, personally!

[Tarven]

The difference Selveem, is that one was reported as a possible code bug, and was told by an admin that it's not. The other was not reported as a code bug, and was used anyway! Nice try though.

Also:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#helpless

[Selveem]

The difference Selveem, is that one was reported as a possible code bug, and was told by an admin that it's not. The other was not reported as a code bug, and was used anyway! Nice try though.

There is no difference. Just because you know how something works does not make you a code abuser. That's my point. There's an expectation that most things are coded as intentional unless glaringly obvious such as a two-spell combination allowing you to fight even after you go negative health.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#helpless

Full round action (unless you've the feat, "Improved Coup De Grace," was it?). Additionally, must be completely at an opponent's mercy. From your same page (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#stunned), stunned is not what you're looking for.

A stunned creature drops everything held, can't take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).

In any case, it wasn't a jab at you. It was an example as to how some things are intentionally coded divergent to core rules.

[Tarven]

A stunned creature drops everything held, can't take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).

That uh... actually looks to be pretty much 'at opponents mercy' to me. Just because it's not explicitly on the list, doesn't mean it doesn't qualify as 'completely helpless'. Ultimately, it's the "DM's" decision. The DM in this case being Mask, and the rest of the staff.

If people wish for things to be changed, in regards to Dispel Magic, that should be made in a separate post in the Game Suggestions forum.

As to the ordering of Spell Affects, the most sensible to me is in the order cast, with the older spells being at the top, and newer ones being at the bottom, if dispel remains as it is.

All in all though, this is just another one of those issues of "Is it worth the effort?". Coding is something that takes time, consideration, implementing, testing, fixing, retesting, etc. That time could be better spent on things like our lovely new combat system, improving class mechanics, and fixing critical things. I'm not saying it's not viable to make suggestions along the lines of categorizing by duration, but I also don't think it would be something high on the priority list.

[Gwain]

On the nature of the spell list order, I like the current configuration, I've never had difficulty following the order. It was expanded in detail a few years ago to give you a more accurate reading of how much time remained for your affects. It was further updated by colour coding these. I've never really had more than ten affects active at one time, so its not that difficult to follow.

On dispel magic, well I like how it works currently for combat as a random dispeller. I see some merit in changing it when you cast on yourself, it would be nice to be able to target specific affects or to eliminate all of them with a single casting when using it on yourself.

[Yemin]

Dunno if the mood of this topic has changed, given the time elapsed but as a current player I would have to say affected list should be flipped on its head in terms of the previous suggestion.

Yes thats right! I'd love to see shorter duration spells at the top of my list, mostly because I read whats ontop first and honestly, when checking my affected list mid-combat, having to run through the longterm affects that I know are still up becomes redundant.

But anyway, thats my view on it.

[Elenthis]

For what it's worth, I'm happy either way. Both ways of displaying the affected spells has obvious merit. I like knowing what would be dispelled. I also would like to know which are going to expire first. But perhaps because I've been casting spells so long, I no longer -need- the list to be in any particular order. I know how long my shockshield lasts before I need to recast. I know when I see a little blerb of yellow text scrolling by, "Your skin has become soft again" was probably it, and I'm screwed...I mean...need to recast stoneskin.

I can't say it doesn't matter to me, because it does...but I think that so long as it follows a pre-existing format (which it does) we should be able to adapt and make it work for us.

Jeff/Elenthis