Exotic Weapon Proficiency

[Hrosskell]

Just out of curiosity--would characters need to take both the "weapon proficiency" and "exotic weapon proficiency" feats to use exotic weapons they normally don't have access to? For example, Graham already trained "weapon proficiency - whips" or whatever--would he now need to train EWP for his scourge? Or the other way around, if he trained EWP for scourge, would he need to pick up WP for the general class?

[Tyeslan]

I was wondering that myself. Some of us have supplicated items that are now exotic, and with being older characters, may not have the feats. Will these weapons be looked at to allow us to have EWP for that faith already? Or will the objects be changed out?

[Selveem]

I really just don't see the value in bringing this into the MUD. It seems like a new grab at feat expenditure from a great number of characters (in the hundreds, most likely). As it stands we already have to train up our skill levels just to use specific weapon types (a requirement not found in D&D [and requires effort much longer than a few days worth of D&D campaigns]). Further, it really just serves as an unnecessary complication.

To make matters worse, with the way the MUD is set up, you'll now have to hunt for these feats and hope they're in the game (unlike many others I'm still waiting for for years now).

Is there a reason behind this aside from attempting to be more in line with D&D rules? If so, I'd like to petition for a lot of the conveniences and benefits that normally occur in D&D as compensation.

[Nylo]

I like seeing this implemented for bastard swords - it balances the equation a bit. Other weapons like whips and such - they're more of RP weapons, people don't choose them because of their damage dice. In our setting, I'd just as soon see EWP apply only to bastard swords and the like.
Selveem: Luckily, EWP is available from every weapon trainer I've come across, you won't need to search.

[Selveem]

Selveem: Luckily, EWP is available from every weapon trainer I've come across, you won't need to search.

That's something, at least, but still doesn't alleviate my primary concerns (thanks for the update though).

[Alitar]

Despite being someone who is screwed over on my most important characters by this feat, I assure you I find there is value to it. EWP has a place in the game, that's why it is in canon. We've poked and prodded for canon in a lot of places; we can't get upset because something is implimented that rubs us the wrong way. Take the good with the bad. I think it makes feat selection more important, I just wish we could turn back time and map feats a bit differently.

[Selveem]

I think it makes feat selection more important, I just wish we could turn back time and map feats a bit differently.

Yes, going forward I could possibly agree with you.

However the people who (like myself) actually take the time and map out their feats the way they want them get slapped for it... doesn't seem quite a positive change. It wouldn't be as big a deal if our feats were refunded and a trainer was placed in-game to re-train whatever feats we want for a few days. This affects multiple characters of mine and I'm doubtful I'm an isolated incident.

Even still, I'm not really certain where the benefit is in this. For weapons like nunchaku, their additional benefits make it worth a feat point. There are plenty of other weapons affected by this change that are simply garbage if they don't get their added benefits coded in comparison to other martial weapons.

So, I have to ask: how do the benefits of the feat requirement outweigh the negatives?

[Brar]

I'm fairly certain that the Forgotten Realms Campaign setting lays out favoured weapons and states that clerics and paladins get proficiency in the weapon that corresponds with their deity. I could be mistaken though, it's been a long time since I've read it.

Actually, that one of the effect of the War domain. Clerics don't receive additional weapon proficiency for free. Most do not even use their god favoured weapon nor are they required to do so (Imagine Mystra forcing her clerics to use shuriken as they main weapon... would be hillarious).
Now from a RP point of view, it certainly show dedication and all, but then taking the feat (be it martial weapon or exotic weapon) proves your dedication.

This is the favoured weapon of the deity itself, not the clergy. (Not all Sunites have red hairs even if it's Sune's preferred hair color...)

Thanks Mask for the racial weapon update, that is great to hear and sorry for the mistake

[Nylo]

I'm going to break in here a moment to say...

Thank you, Mask, for all your hard work on this and other recent updates! I'm sure we all appreciate it, even if we don't sound like it at times.

[Alitar]

This affects multiple characters of mine and I'm doubtful I'm an isolated incident.

I assure you that you're right in feeling that you're not an isolated incident. As for a trainer that will let us retrain feats? I don't know if that sort of thing is possible but I'm sure people would misuse it if it was put in(everyone has feats they regret). I'd just like to see a greater overall leniency and openness to help out people who have issues arising from this change. There are advantages to certain weapons over others and I understand the purpose of the feat to adjust for that and I think it is better to list possible ways to ease this transition than it is to pick apart the use of the feat. It has taken awhile to get used to these many changes but overall, I think I really like them and I'm excited to see what else comes.

[Selveem]

Although you seem to already understand it, I just want to say I'm not trying to pick you apart. At the moment you seem to be the only one defending the change. My questions are directed at you, but only because you represent a view opposing my own, not because I want to badger you.

This affects multiple characters of mine and I'm doubtful I'm an isolated incident.

I assure you that you're right in feeling that you're not an isolated incident. As for a trainer that will let us retrain feats? I don't know if that sort of thing is possible but I'm sure people would misuse it if it was put in(everyone has feats they regret).

So they retrain their feats? Who cares and why? There have been multiple changes to different feats (and their helpfiles) since they came out. Is it really so unfair?

[Alitar]

Ah, well, I would love to retrain my feats and really think being given the chance would be an awesome thing but I'm not sure its fitting. Personally, I think people who have been actively using an exotic weapon should simply have the feat awarded to them for the same reason I don't think being allowed to retrain your feats is a good answer. If you benefit from a feat, you shouldn't be allowed to swap it out. I'm perhaps on the generous side though and while this may be seen as too much of a handout, there are a great number of other "grandfathered" things that benefit older characters and I'm really not sure this one would be a big one.

[Kaaurk]

could a note be added to the weapons description for newer players. I ran into someone earlier that was having trouble figuring out why he couldn't use a weapon he had just trained for.

[Gwain]

The helpfile was updated to include a list of exotic weapons.

[Kaaurk]

This guy was pretty new so I don't think he knew to look at the help file. I was just thinking of an easy way to make it idiot proof

[Kaaurk]

I figured I would bump this because I still have a couple questions.

I was wondering if anything was going to be done about sup items that are exotic weapons that not everyone wants to spend a point on?

and because whips are their own category of weapons that you have to train it doesn't really make sense to need a feat to use something you trained specifically for. I asked if whips could be made an exception to the rule.

[Nylo]

There's a lot of weapons that are only exotic in srd, because of the bonuses they offer. Whips are one of those - none of the bonuses are coded. A cat o nine tails, by srd, is a martial weapon, because it doesn't have near so many. Personally I think an exception should be made for whips and other such categories without their proper bonuses.