Make two-weapon fighting available earlier to drow

[Trillarel]

As the topic says. I made a drow fighter some time ago, wishing to go into TWF. And then I discover I need to be lvl 32 to get dual wield, which is a prereq for TWF feat... Argh. Maybe lower it to lvl 20 for drow, who are known for specializing in this style?

Also, any hopes of getting double swords, double axes and the like?

[Alitar]

I'm given to understand that Drow do in fact not specialize in this style. There are two famous exceptions who give this impression however Drow typically employ a sword and a shield as favoured weapons. I only learned this recently myself.

As for the point of your suggestion, personally I'm a big fan of allowing people to build their character the way they want. That skill requirement hinders you quite a bit so I agree, I would love to see it reduced to around lvl 20.

[Trillarel]

What the drow specialize in depends on the novel/sourcebook you consult and indeed, some sources give sword & shield or just crossbow sniping as the favored style.

Thanks for support

[Nylo]

I'd favor reducing it for all races. In SRD, you can dual wield from level 1. I don't see any balance issues with it moving to that, since we've implemented BAB now. Yeah, it's hardly useful early on, because of the extreme tohit penalties, but if someone wants to deal with that, I'm all for letting them decide. SRD also lets all classes dual wield, but that's another topic entirely.

[Alitar]

To amend my previous point, I agree that it should be lowered but I also think it should be lowered for all races.

[Athon]

I support lowering it for all races as well.

[Vibius]

I agree with lowering it to everyone who can dual-wield.

In order to get benefits from it, you need to invest several feats and since feats are already level-restricted there isn't any need to further add any artificial restriction.

[Hrosskell]

Going to echo the sentiments to Vibius. Currently comparing other build paths (2H weapon requiring only Weapon Focus and its relatives, sword and board requiring this + shield feats) puts TWF at an astronomical disadvantage considering that you need the weapon focus line (5 feats including imp crit for twin weapons, possibly 10 feats total, feasible only for daggers while levelling atm) and the TWF line (three feats) and depend on two skills to be entirely functional. Lowering the gating on dual wield would make the dual wield skill itself easier to train (a godsend) and perhaps make the point at which the average, non-grindy toon gains access to his higher-tier feats more equivalent to other build paths.

[Kethyean]

I concur. Two weapon fighting naturally has so many negatives and then the extra one's imposed atop the high level requirement of the skill. I think the first feat should only have the requisite dexterity and you can learn. Impose the certain skill level to the others.

[Nylo]

I think all the skill requirements should stay, personally. It's not even hard to reach, for the first feat.

[Kethyean]

My main thoughts on it is. If you want to be any good at the play style you choose you got to twink it up to make dual wielding viable. I don't like feeling like I -have- to. Is the meaning I'm getting at.

[Nylo]

My first character to learn the two-weapon fighting feat, trained dual wield to journeyman just in the process of his normal leveling/adventuring. So it's not impossible. Yeah, you won't be as good as someone who's spent time training to GM. But this isn't tabletop, and I think it makes the game more interesting, personally.

[Kethyean]

That's why it should be readily available instead of in the later game brackets. By the time you do get it. It doesn't want to budge because of competition with later skills. Forcing someone to twink a tremendous amount. That's my main point in my argument.

[Nylo]

I didn't disagree with that part. Just the removal of the skill requirement for the first feat.

[Trillarel]

My first character to learn the two-weapon fighting feat, trained dual wield to journeyman just in the process of his normal leveling/adventuring. So it's not impossible. Yeah, you won't be as good as someone who's spent time training to GM. But this isn't tabletop, and I think it makes the game more interesting, personally.

Wonders how it is possible since you need to be lvl 34 to train the skill and you can't wield two weapons without the skill...

[Nylo]

Not in the training and adventuring before he learned it, in the training and adventuring after he learned it. Yeah, he took a hit to his damage output per round, but it didn't take too long to get to JM and learn the feat.

[Trillarel]

Any word on this?