Trap damage concern

[Nysan]

Location: [Redacted]

Item: "Minor negative energy trap", I was able to do a 'search' after an area reset to identify my attacker.

Concern:

Gilain nearly died to what is described as a 'minor' trap. His health only went down 10%, that was fine. What bothers me was his head location went from nothing to mangled from this one event. If AC matters, he was wearing his usual old system, "a mithril full plate helm". Sorry, no logs... my computer picked a great time to restart.

If this is merely my misunderstanding of our "new" trap system, so be it. Thanks to mining, I have encountered a number of minor, and major, traps. But, this felt off so I need a second opinion. Are minor traps supposed to be capable of nearly beheading a lvl 50 character? Did I cross a black cat and got some real bad numbers? Or... what? Tell me I'm crazy.

[Raona]

You got unlucky in that it hit your head. In my testing, if it goes off and you do not avoid it, it hits a random location, with damage usually sufficient to at least change the color on a high-level PC (30-45 HP). I was able to reproduce it doing 40 HP of damage to the head, enough to leave my level 49 test character (a druid) with a critically injured head (-6 HP). Setting it off again enough to hit his head again, he went to -29 HP in the head area. So I don't think it can decapitate you (?), despite doing so much damage to the head area. I don't have a good sense as to whether this is out of line or not.

Moving this to general discussion, as it does not look to be a bug, but rather a balance issue. (Thanks for posting it to bugs, though, so that the sensitive area info could be used and then redacted. I consider this to be a general question about minor trap damage - the specific location certainly warrants a minor trap of this nature.)

[hasryn]

The traps have been like this for awhile. I've hit a minor injury trap with a level forty-ish? fighter a good while back and i took me arm and another time my leg. I can't recall if it got my head though. Traps are a nasty thing, but I wish they had more of them as it's part of the rogues business calling.

[Nysan]

I consider this to be a general question about minor trap damage - the specific location certainly warrants a minor trap of this nature.

Certainly, the trap's location is justified. Don't think I've encountered any trap that made me think, "Huh, why is that there?". Mostly, "Huh, now I know!"

This particular instance threw me that a minor trap could nearly remove a limb (in this case, an instant-death limb) on a lvl 50 character. I would expect such behavior from a major trap. Perhaps it is just me and how I think minor vs major traps work, I don't know.

Edit: And please, don't see this as a "remove traps!" rant or anything. I like the added aspect to exploration and adventuring. I am merely curious if things are as intended.

[Kinni]

I think of minor traps as something that makes the character go "Ow! Mother BEEP!" and then minions come rushing in, stirred by the trap and sound, to attack. Major traps make me think of something as that which happened to you, something built with skill and designed to replace the need for minion guards on a particular entryway. That's just my opinion, though.

[hasryn]

That's what I think to Kinni! There are some in game that when they pop out and you're like holy crap! That say minor but are anything but! Traps need some work and balancing. Not to mention accessable to thieves to lay! A trap making trade and skill to place persay?

[Rhangalas]

You can buy traps in a few locations, I remember seeing them somewhere...

If they were craftable and variable, I would like to see a chance of misfire while setting them.
In another mud I played, the more complex the trap, the more skill needed to set them without it misfiring, so low-skilled characters couldn't just get their hands on deadly traps and use them to insta-kill. More than likely, if they attempted it, they would just end up maiming/killing themselves.

[Nylo]

I believe the idea originally was to have trap setting roll off your detrap skill - the higher your skill in that, the more complex traps you could set successfully. I could be wrong on that, however.

[hasryn]

Hmm yea I see that in the helpfile now. They just need traps we can pick up or a way to make them! Is the code unfinished or just buggy though is what I'm wondering.

[Raona]

On the other points: There is one vendor in-game who sells a trap that rogues can set, checking against the detrap skill. It only triggers on a bash or a pick attempt, so use is limited, but I just confirmed that it works. I think adding more settable traps would be fun; I could see many ways they could cause mischief and also require calling in rogues more often...but they could also be placed so as to do in innocent newbies, if not limited to locked doors.

On the topic at hand - I have limited bandwidth, so I'd appreciate it if someone can assess whether current trap damage is about right. Minor spike trap is looks to be doing 15-20 HP. Minor negative energy trap is doing 30-45 HP. I know that the different types should do differing amounts of damage. I've been away so long that I've forgotten the HP conversion between d20 and FK, but I think it's about 1 to 5?

[hasryn]

It's good seeing you Raona and back on topic! Some strict guidelines for traps could be instituted to protect newbies for the most part. Is it in coded terms where rogues could disarm and pick up the trap as well? I think that was part of the design. It would be fun if it could be set to trigger from mobs entering and exiting to make useful in an advenuring way and not just play fighting player. The prospects have me excited!

[Kinni]

There is one vendor in-game who sells a trap that rogues can set, checking against the detrap skill.

It only triggers on a bash or a pick attempt, so use is limited, but I just confirmed that it works. I think adding more settable traps would be fun; I could see many ways they could cause mischief and also require calling in rogues more often...but they could also be placed so as to do in innocent newbies, if not limited to locked doors.

1) I would love if traps where more easily accessible - the one vendor you mentioned is not the easiest to get to.

2) I'd love to see traps set in doorways between rooms, triggered if not spotted/disabled when simply trying to enter the room. This would be fun for MOBs/PCs that might wander in.

3) A trade to build traps for bards and thieves would be cool. Both are classes that need a little love (bards moreso than thieves).

Sidenote: You want me to post these three things in the suggestion board to separate it from the main topic at hand?

[Raona]

Is it in coded terms where rogues could disarm and pick up the trap as well? I think that was part of the design.

It doesn't look like DETRAP currently allows you to recover the trap, whether it is the settable trap or one from area code. DETRAP just disables the trap, presently. But I'm adding this idea to the suggestions thread Kinni started.